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Men Without Work (2016)

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Re: Men Without Work (2016)

#291

Post by lordfrito »

mint2 wrote: post #278
epups wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, but I think your narrative is misguided. When you were 20,which was 30 years ago, it might have been less likely that you would get a stranger to change your tire. But it was much more likely you, rather than a woman, would find employment and especially reach a position of power. Which one do you think is more important for a satisfying life? The fact that we are working towards a more equal society is no…

This comment leaves out a major important point. In the original comment, calling out the troubles of men as a win for feminism is a totally wrong premise. It was also an offhand remark at the end and really took away from the commment. feminism is unrelated to creating those cited difficulties and actually try to solve some of them. The troubles described sounded more like the product of rising inequality, reduced u…

Ugh I wasn't calling out feminism, just saying it's one way to look at it. As if maybe if you buy into that notion, and if you think that's the goal, then maybe the outcome is a good thing. A transitional thing between where we were and someplace better. Maybe. Maybe not.

I don't have answers.

Re: Men Without Work (2016)

#292

Post by jimmygrapes »

beyond_based wrote: post #185
freshpots wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't flag it, but I am not even remotely surprised that it was. You have an incredibly toxic, misogynistic, and incel-based worldview that is very unhealthy. Virtually every ill you stated was the fault of women, even consumerism and violence. How many women were mass shooters again? Started wars? It is frightening that you really think that way, and I worry for those in your orbit after hearing that you are enti…

You have to look at it from a certain perspective. It’s not just misogynist. It’s also misandrist. I don’t just blame women, I blame the men for failing to uphold society to a higher moral standard and letting petty things like envy, greed, and selfishness take over them, at which point a woman can easily further manipulate them to do their bidding. Our increasingly decadent society wouldn’t be so if men realized the…

FWIW I'll take the flags with you and for the same reasons. I'd love to discuss my reasoning further with those who disagree with me, but we all know (haters and lovers alike) that it won't get that far. For now I'll just say to those who disagree: is the world and culture you've built so rapidly and defend so vociferously truly working to the ends you intend?

Re: Men Without Work (2016)

#293

Post by ajsnigrutin »

lazide wrote: post #287
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If they decided to check out en-masse They are literally forbidden to leave the country (only men, 18-60yo, with some exceptions [0]). It's not men choosing not to check-out, it's literally men being forced to die for a piece of land they might not even care for. [0] https://visitukraine.today/blog/102/exceptions-when-a-man-ca...

It is society trying to protect and sustain itself. And frankly, what other options are there?

> And frankly, what other options are there?

Say "fuck it", let the politicians fight it by themselves, survive, and wave the whatever flag is the winning one in the end.

Or let the volunteers fight, preferably in open fields somewhere.

Who cares, it's just some lines on the map. If you're bothered by those, you can can still volunteer.

Re: Men Without Work (2016)

#294

Post by chasd00 »

staticman2 wrote: post #169
chasd00 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i know exactly what you mean. I remember an early doc appointment with my wife she was pregnant with our first child, the doctor was going over things with my wife like what she should be doing and what she should not be doing etc. I asked the doctor what i should be doing and what i should look out for, she just glared at me and said "you've done enough." implying i was only there to get my wife pregnant. That was 1…

Medically speaking, what did you expect a pregnancy doctor to tell someone who wasn't pregnant?

I was interested in things like what to look out for that may be an indication of a problem. Changes in habits or behavior, that kind of thing. Basically, how to help and care for someone who is pregnant from the medical perspective. Because, at that time, I had never done it before and had no idea.

Re: Men Without Work (2016)

#295

Post by chasd00 »

unholythree wrote: post #194
watwut wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, what you think doctor should tell you about what you should be doing while wife is pregnant? If the wife wants your support, I would expect the wife to tell you what kind of support she needs. She does not need doctor to be her speaker, presumably. And doctor giving you instructions on what she should be doing in pregnancy would be patronizing toward wife.

If we take the poster with good faith we can assume he genuinely thought the doctor might know some useful ways he could be of help that neither he nor his wife knew. Even if there wasn't (which seems unlikely to me) I feel like good bedside manner should extend to a patient's loved ones when possible. Simply addressing him politely to say "Just be available and help as you can." would have be a far kinder way to blo…

A good example of something a doctor could tell the other half is like “if she can’t get out of bed and you take her blood pressure and it’s X then call me but if it’s Y then call 911”. Those are important things a partner needs to know during a pregnancy.

Re: Men Without Work (2016)

#296

Post by pnf »

Karawebnetwork wrote: post #270
lordfrito wrote: post #215

My 2c. Society doesn't care about young men. They're pretty much left to fend for themselves. Hopefully they have a good family structure, and a few good male friends. Without that they're toally adrift. I learned this lesson when I got a flat tire driving across two states when I was 20. No one is willing to help. I guarantee a 20 yo woman would have no problem flagging down help, heck people would stop to help with…

> Or maybe this is a win for feminism? I understand this is a passing remark, but I want to answer the question anyway. Feminism is not about making men's lives more difficult or about cheering when men struggle. Most feminists believe that gender equality can benefit everyone, including men, by creating a more just society. It is not about oppression or mistreatment of any group, not of even men. Men supporting and…

[flagged]

Re: Men Without Work (2016)

#297

Post by reducesuffering »

tonightstoast wrote: post #181
TylerE wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Please check out the Vox article linked by the other poster. I want to preface with saying I’m pro choice. But are you really going to argue the 5 men and 1 woman that vote to affirm Dobbs is representative of the nation? People (including me) have been complaining about how the court hasn’t had a majority blue nomination since the 50s even though the political pendulum has swung multiple times since then. And groupi…

Those 5 mens' and 1 woman's actions would be moot if the conservative states upheld abortion rights. But we all know that when finally given the choice, those states, with representatives run on anti-abortion platforms by popularity, took away those womens' rights. There were tens of millions of men in the South and Idaho involved in those decisions.

Re: Men Without Work (2016)

#298

Post by pnf »

mint2 wrote: post #278
epups wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, but I think your narrative is misguided. When you were 20,which was 30 years ago, it might have been less likely that you would get a stranger to change your tire. But it was much more likely you, rather than a woman, would find employment and especially reach a position of power. Which one do you think is more important for a satisfying life? The fact that we are working towards a more equal society is no…

This comment leaves out a major important point. In the original comment, calling out the troubles of men as a win for feminism is a totally wrong premise. It was also an offhand remark at the end and really took away from the commment. feminism is unrelated to creating those cited difficulties and actually try to solve some of them. The troubles described sounded more like the product of rising inequality, reduced u…

Real men do change their own tires. As it should be. That's not unhealthy machismo, it's the healthy kind.

Re: Men Without Work (2016)

#299

Post by yterdy »

slibhb wrote: post #224

[flagged]

Until one of them walks into your grocery store or your child's classroom and unloads a few clips out of his AR-15, I would hazard to guess. That's the more extreme outcome, of course. You also have, "heavily influencing a subculture that stews in a semi-justified atmosphere of victimization until mass media figures out how commodify it, and you wake up a decade later to find that pop culture has become dominated by spandex and CG energy blasts."

Never ascribe to personal choice, without support, what is evidently a systemic issue. "We" could have chosen to pay these people to pursue their creative or intellectual interests, or to physically improve their communities or other places-in-need - a new deal, of sorts.

Re: Men Without Work (2016)

#300

Post by nradov »

scottLobster wrote: post #69
ianai wrote: post #2

In lieu of any particular review I’m submitting the Wikipedia page. I was unemployed for most of the Great Recession and can empathize with much of this book. I also just remember the “tragedy of my twenties” realizing society had basically no interest in me. Despite a math degree and IT/programming experience. Then the myriad people I’ve interacted with in the last decade plus who are in this situation. Luckily I no…

Yeah it seems like there used to be a cultural value of putting people to work. Generally speaking you had to be a real fuck-up to not get a job. Maybe the jobs available weren't the best, but you could get something to pay for basic food/housing with little effort or credentialing. The attitude was, if you were a decent person and willing to work, "come by and we'll find something for you to do". Now the zeitgeist i…

The US unemployment rate is 3.7%. Even the fuck-ups can get a job if they want one.
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