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75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

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Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#381

Post by gonehome »

hhmc wrote: post #360
dionidium wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it makes you feel any better I delayed having kids and spent my 30s dating and hanging out and going to bars -- and it was terrible. I was never more depressed. I got tired of dating. I got tired of bars. I was lonely. My life had no meaning or direction. I had a nice career and could go anywhere and do anything I wanted, but it turns out none of that made me even a little bit happy. I remember one summer making p…

> Happiness is extremely overrated This seems like a strange conclusion to draw, it doesn’t sound like you were happy

Somewhat disputing definitions - he’s talking about the low stakes idle hedonistic “happiness” from commonly thought of as pleasurable things (brunch, camping, food/drinks with friends, etc.) vs. the type of more difficult stuff that while maybe less pleasant in the day to day moment is often more fulfilling over longer time horizons. Not worth arguing about the word meaning rather than just taking the underlying argument for what it is (imo).

One take away I had from Tim Kreider’s “I Wrote This Book Because I Love You” was that everyone he met who was older and unmarried had a certain aloofness about them or continued search for meaning. This largely wasn’t present in those that had families. We have a strongly selected source of fulfillment baked in as part of the human experience, it may not be for everyone but it’s probably not something that should be dismissed lightly.

Looking at old people and what they regret (and what they value) at the end of their life can be a way to help make fulfilling life decisions, or at least try to steer things in that direction.

Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#382

Post by ybalkind »

WheatMillington wrote: post #90
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #41

One of the things I have a hard time conveying to non-parents is that the most time-intensive parts of parenting don't last forever. I've talked to a lot of young people who say they don't want kids because they think their personal lives will permanently halt the moment they have kids. I spend a lot of time trying to explain that: 1) I still spend a lot of time with friends and can do most of my personal hobbies/act…

I don't think I'm necessarily having the same experience as you.... my advice to people who aren't sure if they want kids, is DON'T. It's bloody hard, you sacrifice A LOT. Don't have kids unless you're very sure it's what you want. I have 2 kids under 6 and I feel like I just don't have any time for any of my hobbies any more. I leave for work first thing, come home in the afternoon, and haven't had any time for myse…

My experience of having kids is very similar to yours. But I will say that I'm starting to see light at the end of the tunnel. My kids are now 8 and 4, no more diapers or waking up at night. My wife and I are getting better at managing parenting responsibilities and lifts. My life is getting more balanced again. And I'm feeling a shift closer to what the comment above yours describes, although I'm not entirely there yet. To be fair though we have 4 grandparents to help plus a nannie so not representative of most people.

Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#383

Post by aconsult1 »

xvedejas wrote: post #316
aconsult1 wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience this isn't true at all. Having kids really is a blank slate and it's up to you to decide how you want to raise yours. I do a lot of things different than my parents did to me, including being more thoughtful about being a good friend, not just their parents. I didn't have the best experience with my parents either. Not that I hated them but they never felt like friends to me. My kids will decide how…

I don't think it's an excuse to not having kids, but I do think generally I have yet to find an excuse to have kids. So far it doesn't interest me. But still, I do wonder whether there's a good reason for that.

I relate to your current state of mind. I wasn't sure either before I had my first child. I didn't particularly like kids, but wondered what would it be like.

Then I had my first child by accident at 33 and it was by far the best thing that ever happened to me. I'm glad I didn't wait longer to decide rationally to have kids.

I can confirm a lot of the comments in here are true, for good or bad. But most definitely an overall good experience with love and fun trumping some minor annoyances.

(Writing this at 3am while my 3yrs old struggles to sleep in between me and wife)

Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#385

Post by texasbigdata »

p2detar wrote: post #374
icare_1er wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kind of makes me anxious about having kids but I have also heard, on the other end, senior people expressing how gloomy it feels to not have kids. And unlike the tiredness of having kids, that anxiety only grows forever till the day you die and all you leave behind is a nice car.

My algorithmic approach has always been: 1. You’re 100% sure you don’t want kids? Then don’t. 2. In all other cases, have a child. Even when in doubt. Years will pass and doubt may perish, but with it also the ability to have children.

This seems like the most inhumane way to make the decision discussed, even if you're not necessarily wrong for taking this approach. I can't imagine what it'd be like being a small child in a household where your parents "had doubt" and turns out they didn't really want you after all. You can't fake it well enough for 18 years where they wouldn't notice. Just sad imho

Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#386

Post by wink »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #41

One of the things I have a hard time conveying to non-parents is that the most time-intensive parts of parenting don't last forever. I've talked to a lot of young people who say they don't want kids because they think their personal lives will permanently halt the moment they have kids. I spend a lot of time trying to explain that: 1) I still spend a lot of time with friends and can do most of my personal hobbies/act…

> I still spend a lot of time with friends and can do most of my personal hobbies/activities on weekends. My wife and I are good at sharing the load. You don't need 2 parents watching kids 100% of the time.

I'm not sure there's actually anything to discuss here, but you present anecdata and I'm happy it works out for you. I guess you've talked to several people who just seem to have a completely different experience. I'd say 3-4 out of 5 couples will typically wall off completely once they have kids and you can go from seeing them every week to... maybe 2-3 times a year. Mind you, I am not complaining - I am merely trying to observe and document. If you don't need both parents watching the kid(s)? Cool. Most couples I know won't split up for the evening so one of them can go out regularly to meet friends, they will both stay at home. This sometimes gets better when the kids are old enough so they can bring them, but I've seen that take 6-8 years.

> Don't let the idea of the first few months/years define your entire decision for how you want to structure your family for the rest of your life

Coming back t your point one - 10 years can be a long time, especially if it's about losing contact to friends. When they're gone your life may have actually changed, because now you need new friends, if you value that part.

Again, please don't take this as any kind of blame - but it's not really hard to convey, and I've certainly simplified a lot of thing. You don't just stop talking to your friends because you now have kids, there are other reason - but my experience (and probably that of the people you want to convey things to) is that if your friends get kids, there's a good chance you'll lose access to them, and ultimately, lose them as friends - unless you live close and get kids at the same time.

Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#387

Post by parkingrift »

chronofar wrote: post #315
Poppys wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are tangible problems with a low birth rate though, which western economies are experiencing now.

There are also tangible benefits. Economic models needing to adjust to non-perpetual growth is not an impossible nor existential crisis.

Adjusting economic models? We’re significantly below replacement level. That means population collapse and, eventually, actual extinction. We’re not headed toward a future where we just stop growing. We’re headed for a future where populations shrink by more than 50%. It takes decades to create this problem, and even more decades to fix it.

People aren’t paying attention because from a raw numbers perspective our population is growing. But it’s also aging, and eventually people will die and we won’t have created enough kids to reverse the shrinking.

I’m not even getting into the economic catastrophe of a shrinking population caring for an aging society. The US may be alright due to immigration but you can’t say the same of Korea, Japan, Italy, or most of Europe.

This is a crisis and we need to be taking action right now. By the time the populations start shrinking it will be too late. We can eventually reverse the trend but it will take an entire century, or more. We’re quite literally running out of time to avoid disaster.

Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#388

Post by Defitio »

natnatenathan wrote: post #289
dionidium wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it makes you feel any better I delayed having kids and spent my 30s dating and hanging out and going to bars -- and it was terrible. I was never more depressed. I got tired of dating. I got tired of bars. I was lonely. My life had no meaning or direction. I had a nice career and could go anywhere and do anything I wanted, but it turns out none of that made me even a little bit happy. I remember one summer making p…

This is exactly my experience, probably from age 28 until I met my wife at ~34. My friends and I would go to all these bars, clubs, rock climbing trips. While I loved my friends and generally enjoyed doing those things, I felt this long-term malaise of meaningless. The loss of freedom getting married and then greater loss when having kids was unexpected and a jarring change. But it has made me such a better person. A…

In my opinion plenty of people just use kids as a scapegoat for meaning of life.

My question would be why you value your kids time more than bouldern?

Because you made them? Because they consume so much time with them?

Or because you are just better in being a parent and biological getting satisfaction out of it?

Unfortunately for me I'm not sure if I would end like you or the other poster who regrets it sometimes.

Also I'm not sure if I want to force another/new human through my experiences like going to school etc.

In dune the king new/realized that he can't do what is necessary but has to prepare his son to do so.

I have the opposite though: perhaps I need to not to have kids to stop the cycle of creating meaning through procreation.

Yes I overthink stuff and one way or the other I still think becoming a parent would be a life changing experience but besides all of the normal thoughts climate change comes on top of it.

Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#389

Post by watwut »

novok wrote: post #330
watwut wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> realizing at the end of it that all three weekends were exactly the same. Nothing new happens. You're not missing anything if you just stay home. To be honest, I felt exactly like that when kids were small, especially when being at home with them. Every day same as one before, with only minor variation. Going for vacations meant doing exactly same things as at home, except in harder setup. Nothing ever ever happens…

IMO that adult isolation is a bit of a choice. What I've seen happen is other parents socialize with other parents with kids of a similar age. Two moms who both have babies visit each other and hang out, etc.

> What I've seen happen is other parents socialize with other parents with kids of a similar age. Two moms who both have babies visit each other and hang out, etc.

That does not make isolation choice. That makes some people finding friends despite suddenly seriously limited pool of options. You are starting from zero, not knowing anyone and loosing both actual existing friends and actual related hobbies. The only thing you have in common with most of those people is the similar age kid.

You need to be seriously extroverted to be able to create friendship out of nothing after you have seen each other twice on playground while also supervising the toddler. People here complain about loneliness while having incredibly easy situation compared to that, seriously.

Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#390

Post by xeonmc »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #41

One of the things I have a hard time conveying to non-parents is that the most time-intensive parts of parenting don't last forever. I've talked to a lot of young people who say they don't want kids because they think their personal lives will permanently halt the moment they have kids. I spend a lot of time trying to explain that: 1) I still spend a lot of time with friends and can do most of my personal hobbies/act…

I like to think of it as starting a new Minecraft survival world. Time-intensive at the start, but that's you setting things up to gradually needing less and less attention.
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