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75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

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Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#351

Post by navane »

notch656a wrote: post #276
morgtheborg wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know that I come from a family of five and was starved for attention. My husband comes from a family of 2 and felt he always got attention when he wanted it. Like some of my strongest memories are of leaving notes for my Mom about how I felt neglected and was in room waiting for her just to BE there with me. She'd last about ten minutes before she'd begin multi-tasking. Not because she was a bad mom but because she…

It's interesting how opinions on this change depending on how it's phrased. Sometimes I see it phrased as older kids taking on some of the labor in what is perceived as maturity building activity that may serve them in adulthood. Others use a completely different phrase, calling it "parentification" and then call it child abuse or worse, believing it's better for the kids to all fight for the resource of the parent r…

A proffessional athlete was asked, in the context of a knockout tournament where different conpetitors had different waiting period between matches: "is it better to have more time and rest between the fights, or to have less time but more momentum?" She replied: "Whichever happens to you, you turn into a positive frame."

Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#352

Post by xyzzy_plugh »

volkl48 wrote: post #193
shanewwarren wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard stories of how difficult the process of adopting kids can be. So, kudos to you, that sounds like a lot to manage. Regarding opting out, I get it, but I don't agree personally. Not having kids, can enable some pretty great lifestyles. But I do feel like you don't get a chance to understand what being a parent is all about. No amount of being a great aunt / uncle / whatever, gives you that feeling of needing…

Life is a series of choices, and it's impossible to explore every path you could take. > But I do feel like you don't get a chance to understand what being a parent is all about. That's 100% accurate. There's a pretty much infinite number of possible life experiences I'm not going to get to experience personally and will not have the time/money/ability to fit into my lifespan. The wishlist of things I'd love to do or…

> Taking on what amounts to a lifetime commitment and a massive investment of time and money for an experience that I have zero interest in and think I would actively dislike, seems like a terrible use of my finite resources.

This is a naive way to think about it. In the grand scheme of things, as TFA hints at, kids don't take up a significant portion of your life. If you're goal is to focus on striking off entries on a wishlist, there are many, many things that can be sacrificed to make room that don't involve children.

It's not as bad as you make it seem.

Lastly, I don't really care about experiences the way I did when I was younger. Going on a trip to an exotic locale doesn't really excite me as much as, say, taking a good picture of a friend or family member and sharing it. Or hearing a good story or joke.

Kids expand to fill the space in your life you make for them. I have more fun with my kids than possibly anyone else. I want to share experiences with them, not for myself.

Have you ever been excited when telling a friend about a cool spot they've never been to, and subsequently taking them there? Kids are like a revolving door of those opportunities. They start from scratch.

Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#353

Post by dragonwriter »

shanewwarren wrote: post #175
maxsilver wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My partner and I have 5 kids under 7yrs old -- four of whom are adopted and two of whom are struggling with severe developmental delays (and likely autism, still waiting on formal diagnosis). When kids get older, they get a lot more "fun" and a lot less immediate work. I can take my eldest two out pretty much anywhere without a ton of effort, they are fun to hang out with, they can be trusted to be kind and respectfu…

I've heard stories of how difficult the process of adopting kids can be. So, kudos to you, that sounds like a lot to manage. Regarding opting out, I get it, but I don't agree personally. Not having kids, can enable some pretty great lifestyles. But I do feel like you don't get a chance to understand what being a parent is all about. No amount of being a great aunt / uncle / whatever, gives you that feeling of needing…

> It forces you to change, maintain a good relationship w/ your partner, be a good role model, etc.

No, it doesn’t actually, as any kind of even approximately universal effect, force any of that, and even a casual look around at society would demonstrate that pretty clearly. It may or may not have motivated that in you – but plenty of people who would describe themselves as having those traits in their own relationships / parenting objectively don’t, so self-assessment is pretty clearly not a reliable gauge here. I would agree that there are people whose combination of innate personality, life experiences, etc., will lead them to actually be nudged in those directions by having children, but there are plenty who won’t be. And there are plenty of people who will be nudged in much more negative directions by the experience.

As a parent myself, it amazes me how many people who are parents are drawn into a bizarre evangelization of parenting as some kind of universally ideal vocation, with stories about the effect it will have that are trivially refutable by looking outside of one’s own internal narrative of their own experience with their own kids at the rest of the world around them.

Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#354

Post by poisonarena »

dionidium wrote: post #249
WheatMillington wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think I'm necessarily having the same experience as you.... my advice to people who aren't sure if they want kids, is DON'T. It's bloody hard, you sacrifice A LOT. Don't have kids unless you're very sure it's what you want. I have 2 kids under 6 and I feel like I just don't have any time for any of my hobbies any more. I leave for work first thing, come home in the afternoon, and haven't had any time for myse…

If it makes you feel any better I delayed having kids and spent my 30s dating and hanging out and going to bars -- and it was terrible. I was never more depressed. I got tired of dating. I got tired of bars. I was lonely. My life had no meaning or direction. I had a nice career and could go anywhere and do anything I wanted, but it turns out none of that made me even a little bit happy. I remember one summer making p…

37, almost 38 and no kids, doing what you are describing right now all over the world, and it is absolutely amazing. I think your depression and feeling of everything being overrated is a you thing, and not everyone feels that way. This has been the best decade of my life and I have been poor the whole time, just hustling and making things work how i can with jobs and money and exploring the world and the people

Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#355

Post by dragonwriter »

lazyasciiart wrote: post #244
shanewwarren wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree with you. Divorce rates are high, and for many it doesn't make a positive difference. I imagine most folks on HN are pretty conscious about striving to be better, so for this small subset I think my opinion is reasonable. And I know plenty of people who if they had kids (but abstain) would absolutely rock at it, and it *could* be a positive forcing function, such that they get to experience different…

People who are having kids because they "want to be better" can go ahead and just be better by helping take care of the kids already here who need it.

In my experience, people who are having kids because they want to be better have something broken in their lives that they ought to to work on fixing before having kids, and the consequences if they don’t can be…quite bad.

Get a therapist for therapy, not a child.

Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#356

Post by ckdarby »

WheatMillington wrote: post #90
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #41

One of the things I have a hard time conveying to non-parents is that the most time-intensive parts of parenting don't last forever. I've talked to a lot of young people who say they don't want kids because they think their personal lives will permanently halt the moment they have kids. I spend a lot of time trying to explain that: 1) I still spend a lot of time with friends and can do most of my personal hobbies/act…

I don't think I'm necessarily having the same experience as you.... my advice to people who aren't sure if they want kids, is DON'T. It's bloody hard, you sacrifice A LOT. Don't have kids unless you're very sure it's what you want. I have 2 kids under 6 and I feel like I just don't have any time for any of my hobbies any more. I leave for work first thing, come home in the afternoon, and haven't had any time for myse…

Have you had your blood checked in the last year? You could very well have a vitamin D deficiency which will explain the exhaustion.

It's hard to have empathy, because my weeks are 70-80 hours every week and I honestly still feel like I have plenty of down time.

In terms of time you have the time based on your profile. Plenty of time spent on HN. You're also gaining the equivalent of work+commute every Saturday & Sunday.

Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#357

Post by dragonwriter »

dionidium wrote: post #249
WheatMillington wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think I'm necessarily having the same experience as you.... my advice to people who aren't sure if they want kids, is DON'T. It's bloody hard, you sacrifice A LOT. Don't have kids unless you're very sure it's what you want. I have 2 kids under 6 and I feel like I just don't have any time for any of my hobbies any more. I leave for work first thing, come home in the afternoon, and haven't had any time for myse…

If it makes you feel any better I delayed having kids and spent my 30s dating and hanging out and going to bars -- and it was terrible. I was never more depressed. I got tired of dating. I got tired of bars. I was lonely. My life had no meaning or direction. I had a nice career and could go anywhere and do anything I wanted, but it turns out none of that made me even a little bit happy. I remember one summer making p…

> If it makes you feel any better I delayed having kids and spent my 30s dating and hanging out and going to bars – and it was terrible.

I didn’t have kids until my 40s – didn’t delay, it just worked out that way – after getting married in my late 20s, spending…very little time dating or hanging out in bars, and it was wonderful. So was having kids. And once I had them, I certainly wouldn’t have minded having more of the energy of youth with them, but I also don’t mind the life experience that I had first.

> I had a nice career and could go anywhere and do anything I wanted, but it turns out none of that made me even a little bit happy. […] Happiness is extremely overrated.

Happiness isn’t overrated; as you yourself explicitly note, you didn’t find it and were miserable because of that.

> Now I’m tired and busy and I don’t go out and do “fun” stuff very often, but I’m much more satisfied. My biggest regret is that I waited so long to start my life. Brunch isn’t life.

Brunch (both literally and, as I understand the use, metaphorically) very much is life (not all of life, but, in its slice, as much “life” as anything else), for many people.

So can kids be, for many people.

So is anything you have a passion for, whether its the activity, or the companions, or the mission motivating the activity. (Bonus if it is a combination of all of those.)

Doing things merely because you’ve got the idea that it is socially expected that they will provide happiness, though, usually isn’t going to be it.

Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#358

Post by flurdy »

WheatMillington wrote: post #90
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #41

One of the things I have a hard time conveying to non-parents is that the most time-intensive parts of parenting don't last forever. I've talked to a lot of young people who say they don't want kids because they think their personal lives will permanently halt the moment they have kids. I spend a lot of time trying to explain that: 1) I still spend a lot of time with friends and can do most of my personal hobbies/act…

I don't think I'm necessarily having the same experience as you.... my advice to people who aren't sure if they want kids, is DON'T. It's bloody hard, you sacrifice A LOT. Don't have kids unless you're very sure it's what you want. I have 2 kids under 6 and I feel like I just don't have any time for any of my hobbies any more. I leave for work first thing, come home in the afternoon, and haven't had any time for myse…

>> 3) You actually like hanging out with your own kids.

> I don't know what age that starts, but I'm 5 years and counting.

I hope it kicks in soon. I love spending time with my kids. They are 8 & 11 now. Sure they can be annoying and as they get older more viscous arguing...

But still I look forward to go for walks with them or have a little minecraft session together, or just some simple lego. Or just fixing/building things together around the house, inside or out. Sometimes not or just for short periods. But I look forward to the next time.

I have taken a lot of time off on purpose to spend as much time with them as possible whilst they are young. And working from home before we all had to.

Still they get super excited to spend time with me on anything. But my oldest is now 11 and I can feel she soon will prefer hanging out with her friends and not her embarrassing dad.

But I agree, weekdays when I am working full time it is still knackering. I dream of them all being in bed at 7.30. And spending time with and looking after my kids means I have no time for friends or most of my hobbies at weekends.

Though as the older one may soon want to spend less time with her dad that also means she require less of my supervision as she goes to clubs and sports after school, and organises her time herself more independently.

So I may soon have time for hobbies again. Mid-life crisis here I come.

Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#359

Post by astorsnk »

jollofricepeas wrote: post #221
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #41

One of the things I have a hard time conveying to non-parents is that the most time-intensive parts of parenting don't last forever. I've talked to a lot of young people who say they don't want kids because they think their personal lives will permanently halt the moment they have kids. I spend a lot of time trying to explain that: 1) I still spend a lot of time with friends and can do most of my personal hobbies/act…

You know what’s kind of weird? …When people say they can’t do any of their own hobbies because they have kids. I get it if you’re into kinky or extremely dangerous hobbies BUT… - I’ve always shared my hobbies with my kids. When I was really into making music, I gave my toddler at first Toca Music and then eventually their own iPad with GarageBand and we would just make songs together. - When I wrote apps, I taught th…

Anecdotally I see this with my friends who’ve had kids. A bunch of them all had kids roughly the same time (all within a year) and it’s fascinating how differently they all react. On the extreme ends you have one that nobody sees anymore because he has a child. On the other hand you have the guy that does everything he used to because, when possible he brings the baby, and when not his wife will take care of it (and he’ll do the same for her). What I’ve found most interesting is that the things he brings the baby to do (e.g. camping, or a music festival, the pub) are things the other guy would think are impossible. So I think a lot of it comes down to mindset and compromise (e.g. go to the music festival but stay in the family campsite and understand that you might not be able to get wasted but you’ll still have a great time listening to music and being with friends).

Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#360

Post by hhmc »

dionidium wrote: post #249
WheatMillington wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think I'm necessarily having the same experience as you.... my advice to people who aren't sure if they want kids, is DON'T. It's bloody hard, you sacrifice A LOT. Don't have kids unless you're very sure it's what you want. I have 2 kids under 6 and I feel like I just don't have any time for any of my hobbies any more. I leave for work first thing, come home in the afternoon, and haven't had any time for myse…

If it makes you feel any better I delayed having kids and spent my 30s dating and hanging out and going to bars -- and it was terrible. I was never more depressed. I got tired of dating. I got tired of bars. I was lonely. My life had no meaning or direction. I had a nice career and could go anywhere and do anything I wanted, but it turns out none of that made me even a little bit happy. I remember one summer making p…

> Happiness is extremely overrated

This seems like a strange conclusion to draw, it doesn’t sound like you were happy

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