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75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

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Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#311

Post by watwut »

dionidium wrote: post #249
WheatMillington wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think I'm necessarily having the same experience as you.... my advice to people who aren't sure if they want kids, is DON'T. It's bloody hard, you sacrifice A LOT. Don't have kids unless you're very sure it's what you want. I have 2 kids under 6 and I feel like I just don't have any time for any of my hobbies any more. I leave for work first thing, come home in the afternoon, and haven't had any time for myse…

If it makes you feel any better I delayed having kids and spent my 30s dating and hanging out and going to bars -- and it was terrible. I was never more depressed. I got tired of dating. I got tired of bars. I was lonely. My life had no meaning or direction. I had a nice career and could go anywhere and do anything I wanted, but it turns out none of that made me even a little bit happy. I remember one summer making p…

> realizing at the end of it that all three weekends were exactly the same. Nothing new happens. You're not missing anything if you just stay home.

To be honest, I felt exactly like that when kids were small, especially when being at home with them. Every day same as one before, with only minor variation. Going for vacations meant doing exactly same things as at home, except in harder setup. Nothing ever ever happens either. And plus, you are isolated from other adults, falling into depression and loosing ability to socialize.

Genuinely, I am glad I have kids. But I am so glad that period ended.

Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#312

Post by svnt »

a_e_k wrote: post #163
WheatMillington wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think I'm necessarily having the same experience as you.... my advice to people who aren't sure if they want kids, is DON'T. It's bloody hard, you sacrifice A LOT. Don't have kids unless you're very sure it's what you want. I have 2 kids under 6 and I feel like I just don't have any time for any of my hobbies any more. I leave for work first thing, come home in the afternoon, and haven't had any time for myse…

I have four kids. YMMV, but I've found with mine that six years old seems to be the magic threshold. Developmentally, it seems like at that age a switch suddenly turns on and they start really showing distinct interests, talking fluently, thinking more abstractly, making solid friendships with a few peers, and wanting a bit more independence. I find the 6yo age to be a blast.

This is a pretty consistent finding in early childhood development —- typically around 5-6 years old they go from just absorbing everything to being more like a person as we think of it. There is another shift often around 8-10 where they become more fully integrated.

Then that integrated little soul gets thrown into major hormonal shifts…

Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#313

Post by frontman1988 »

Poppys wrote: post #295
dragonsky67 wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure why there is a stigma to deciding to not have kids. It's not as if your decision is going to have much impact on anybody except yourself or the potential grandparents who may feel that they are missing out, but that is very much their problem. All this talk of "perpetuating the species" is so much crap... The species will get along quite well without everybody contributing their genetic material. At leas…

There are tangible problems with a low birth rate though, which western economies are experiencing now.

That's just a transitionary problem. Even just 50 years ago there were half of us as now. 99% of humanity's history has had less than 1 billion people. 8 billion people is way more than needed and it's showing it's ill impacts on the enviroment as well.

Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#314

Post by frontman1988 »

ProfessorLayton wrote: post #29

A huge asterisk here is that this varies greatly by culture. For better or worse* certain cultures value strong family bonds and time spent with the parents, as well as bilateral support well into adulthood. Many cultures also encourage multigenerational living within a single household (or in extremely close proximity like my parents did). For example, my parents were happy to have me live at home as long as I wante…

Yes I am living with my parents continuosly for the past 24 years. Does that mean they have consumed 100% of their time living with me? I hope not

Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#315

Post by chronofar »

Poppys wrote: post #295
dragonsky67 wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure why there is a stigma to deciding to not have kids. It's not as if your decision is going to have much impact on anybody except yourself or the potential grandparents who may feel that they are missing out, but that is very much their problem. All this talk of "perpetuating the species" is so much crap... The species will get along quite well without everybody contributing their genetic material. At leas…

There are tangible problems with a low birth rate though, which western economies are experiencing now.

There are also tangible benefits. Economic models needing to adjust to non-perpetual growth is not an impossible nor existential crisis.

Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#316

Post by xvedejas »

aconsult1 wrote: post #255
xvedejas wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the main thing that informs me personally is that I didn't enjoy spending time with my parents when I was a kid. I imagine those who want kids must have had a more positive kind of childhood experience and relationship with their parents.

In my experience this isn't true at all. Having kids really is a blank slate and it's up to you to decide how you want to raise yours. I do a lot of things different than my parents did to me, including being more thoughtful about being a good friend, not just their parents. I didn't have the best experience with my parents either. Not that I hated them but they never felt like friends to me. My kids will decide how…

I don't think it's an excuse to not having kids, but I do think generally I have yet to find an excuse to have kids. So far it doesn't interest me. But still, I do wonder whether there's a good reason for that.

Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#317

Post by nostrademons »

ChainOfFools wrote: post #281
ransom1538 wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"there are a half dozen more who don't give any thought to any of this whatsoever and proceed to have (often multiple) kids anyway." You might have to update this [1]. People do care. People have an iphone now. People can read. The "tons of kids poppin" arguments don't hold. We will see a global wide population decrease soon. https://econofact.org/the-mystery-of-the-declining-u-s-birth...

spend a couple months in and out of your local NICU, as I have, seeing firsthand the depressingly common spectacle of premature neonates being left alone for days, sometimes over a week, by parents (or parent) who can't make the time to visit their own clinging-to-life offspring. Because their lives are already overburdoned by the several other - somehow always toddler-age - children in tow with them. Lives frequentl…

Pretty heavy selection bias in that sample. All the people who chose not to have kids obviously are not going to be in the NICU. Among the people who do choose to have kids, those with good prenatal care and healthy habits are going to be very underrepresented in the NICU, particularly if you're in a community where you see a lot of substance abuse. So what's left is what you've observed.

Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#318

Post by RamblingCTO »

natnatenathan wrote: post #289
dionidium wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it makes you feel any better I delayed having kids and spent my 30s dating and hanging out and going to bars -- and it was terrible. I was never more depressed. I got tired of dating. I got tired of bars. I was lonely. My life had no meaning or direction. I had a nice career and could go anywhere and do anything I wanted, but it turns out none of that made me even a little bit happy. I remember one summer making p…

This is exactly my experience, probably from age 28 until I met my wife at ~34. My friends and I would go to all these bars, clubs, rock climbing trips. While I loved my friends and generally enjoyed doing those things, I felt this long-term malaise of meaningless. The loss of freedom getting married and then greater loss when having kids was unexpected and a jarring change. But it has made me such a better person. A…

Thank you and also the parent for the perspective. That's also what I experience. Not sure kids will fix that, but it always feels better knowing you're not alone.

Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#319

Post by frontman1988 »

collegeburner wrote: post #197
maxsilver wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My partner and I have 5 kids under 7yrs old -- four of whom are adopted and two of whom are struggling with severe developmental delays (and likely autism, still waiting on formal diagnosis). When kids get older, they get a lot more "fun" and a lot less immediate work. I can take my eldest two out pretty much anywhere without a ton of effort, they are fun to hang out with, they can be trusted to be kind and respectfu…

i'm too young to be having kids rn anyway but i thought about it a little and this is one of the big things that makes me hesitate. i don't think i could handle raising a kid who ended up special needs and required lifelong care. seems like having a kid who ended up an alcoholic/junkie/mentally retarded/deeply at odds with my values would really remove most of the positives, so it would be a serious gamble. of course…

Even I am young and lean childfree. My reasoning is that non-existence is better than existence. More and more I see the world, more and more I agree with Buddhism's first noble truth that there is suffering in life. There are some moments of joy, but is all of it worth it afterall? It's just a tough question. I don't want to bring any more suffering to this world. There is already so much suffering and I can't do anything about it. So many innocents throughout history have suffered so much. Millions of innocents died in holocaust or nuclear bombs or famines in the last 100 years ago alone. Recently teenagers are getting killed mercilessly in Iran. Life can be so unfair sometimes that it feels like a bad gamble to produce more of it. A child can give great joy to their parents for sure, but they can also cause great suffering. Like there is hardly anything more hurtful in life than the bereavement of your own child. People forget that something that can give you great joy can also give you great pain. And for me, it's not just about me and the happiness I derive from parenting my kid, but also the child who will one day grow into an adult and have to deal with this cruel world and the sheer pain of conscious existence itself. For these reasons I am leaning childfree for now.

Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#320

Post by radicalbyte »

WheatMillington wrote: post #90
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #41

One of the things I have a hard time conveying to non-parents is that the most time-intensive parts of parenting don't last forever. I've talked to a lot of young people who say they don't want kids because they think their personal lives will permanently halt the moment they have kids. I spend a lot of time trying to explain that: 1) I still spend a lot of time with friends and can do most of my personal hobbies/act…

I don't think I'm necessarily having the same experience as you.... my advice to people who aren't sure if they want kids, is DON'T. It's bloody hard, you sacrifice A LOT. Don't have kids unless you're very sure it's what you want. I have 2 kids under 6 and I feel like I just don't have any time for any of my hobbies any more. I leave for work first thing, come home in the afternoon, and haven't had any time for myse…

> haven't had any time for myself until the kids are down at 7.30

I have three kids (3, 6, 9) and we don't get to sit down without kids until around 22:00 on average. Sometimes it's quiet at 20:00 (the youngest two asleep), sometimes at 00:30.

We have no life outside of work and kids. It should eventually get better though, as soon as the youngest two start being able to sleep themselves.

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