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Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

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Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#921

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first amendment is designed to protect people from government. That's it. It's beyond clear in its text. Courts have ruled time and time again finding speech that harms people is most certainly not protected. We have laws that deal with slander, libel, harassment, and speech that does not pass the clear and present danger clause does meet the criteria for "free" speech. I don't understand how anyone can look at t…

I believe that free speech, as a doctrine, is an intrinsic good. It is that simple. I think the late Aaron Swartz describes my stance on free speech as a doctrine and moral principle: http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/becausewecan The status of the law has no influence on my stance on morality. Legality neither sufficient nor necessary for morality. The existence of slavery was once legal, was that sufficient to make it…

> believe that free speech, as a doctrine, is an intrinsic good.

I don't believe so. For example, hate speech and verbal abuse against a mentally vulnerable person, privately communicated, with only the intent to harm that person is clearly morally bad. It then follows that if we can identify exactly when this occurs and limit it without further externalities, then that would be morally good.

Another example: there is a fire, and you give firefighters misinformation with the intent to prevent people from being saved. That is a moral bad, externalities notwithstanding, and it is a moral good if we could prevent exactly such acts.

If you accept these, then the discussion is no longer that free speech is always good, but that what forms of speech in what contexts are acceptable, and what limits on enforcement on free speech is acceptable. I suppose that most people accept these, as opposed to having an absolute stance as yours, and people with varied experiences have different positions on this complicated issue, hence the constant conversation and reappraisal.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#922
Supporting the removal of a problematic site (as though that would do the trick) at the expense of setting a bad president is a profoundly oblique way to go about things.

A few years ago people urged CDNs and ISPs to drop the Daily Caller, then it was Parler, and for numerous times it was 4/8chan. At what point do we admit that the solution to extremism isn’t in blocking sites where this activity collaborates?

This is a cultural problem that can’t be fixed with the hammer of authoritarianism.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#923

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I treat these sites as cannaries. As long as they exist I can be confident that censorship isn't too bad, as they start to get shut down I start to worry. First the came for the X and I was not an X etc etc...

I too measure my freedom based on how easily bigots terrorize groups I am not a part of. Sad day for me, personally

That's more of a measure of how inadequate your laws currently are. I view GP's measure to be far more accurate and reasonable, and one that I use myself.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#924

I think it’s interesting that so many people see the danger in a Twitter “mob” effectively running Kiwifarms off the public, visible internet, without recognising that Kiwifarms themselves were a mob, with the precise goal of running people (including the recently targeted streamer) off the public visible internet too. The tactics were different, but the goal is effectively the same. The key differences are Kiwifarms…

Quoted post unavailable.

That's a half-truth at best. There's a big part of the site dedicated to covering e.g. animal abusers.

The site owner seems to rarely promote that kind of content to the front page though, unless they try to get the site shut down.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#925

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking from personal experience, when a “bad” forum is shut down the members are not usually successful in spreading their toxicity into other areas. Sadly it sort of just dies.

sadly?

I mean sadly for me and probably better off for everyone else

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#926

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should private entities bear the burden of supporting content they don't endorse?

Do you believe your ISP should be allowed to drop you if you say something they don't like? What about your phone company? We, as a society, already forcing companies to support content they don't endorse.

Do you believe that Kiwi Farms should be able to set up shop in a restaurant and peddle their hateful shit?

What about an airline terminal?

We, as a society, are already denying individuals and organizations the right to disseminate information while using our private property when it doesn't align with our goals and beliefs.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#927

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think it's pretty doubtful to just attribute a suicide to some people who made fun of or harassed the deceased Near literally said he was committing suicide due to the abuse from Kiwi Farms. If you're doubtful, it's because you're willfully ignorant. https://twitter.com/near_koukai/status/1408986839743037448

Not even the tweet you linked says this. The person says they have been depressed and mocked their entire life and that they have tried therapy and medication and that it did not work. That seems much more like a depressed person driven to suicide than a forum being responsible for responsible for their death.

It literally says, "Kiwi Farms has made the harassment orders of magnitude worse." By all means, continue to enjoy your willful ignorance, it must be nice.

One of Near's friends just tweeted a message where they had begged, "do something about this site already" the day they killed themself. Nier committed suicide because of KF harassment. https://twitter.com/marcan42/status/1567014389282385922

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#928

I think it’s interesting that so many people see the danger in a Twitter “mob” effectively running Kiwifarms off the public, visible internet, without recognising that Kiwifarms themselves were a mob, with the precise goal of running people (including the recently targeted streamer) off the public visible internet too. The tactics were different, but the goal is effectively the same. The key differences are Kiwifarms…

> without recognising that Kiwifarms themselves were a mob That's seems like a false equivalence to me. They don't have nearly as much as power and influence as the Twitter mobs. Which entire major websites do you think the KF "mob" can get off the internet by political/social pressure? Also, if there's no avoiding the existence of mobs in the current political climate, it's better to allow all sides to have their ow…

But isn't that a catch-22? If the twitter mob wasn't successful in getting KF kicked off, than KF would have been more powerful than the twitter mob?

What alternative are you suggesting, that we just roll over and let these kinds of assholes ruin lives with impunity?

"Power never takes a back step only in the face of more power."

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#929
post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is the site got named in a swatting attack on a GOP House member. That ups the stakes a bit and probably made providing a DDOS service for kiwifarms problematic.

It got named because the alleged attacker called the police and said "it was me, Kiwi Farms user so-and-so." The user in question denied making this call and claimed they had been impersonated. This happened in the midst of the pressure campaign on Cloudflare, to a GOP House member known for jumping the gun who had no prior history with Kiwi Farms. If that's not extremely suspect I don't know what is.

Agreed it was just unrelated but it made news headlines then old history about keffals , them not helping the police with the Auckland shooter so they became "the baddies".

It simply made Cloudflare's position untenable - they are not piratebay but need customers.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#930

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could build something on top of bittorrent for instance. With the consequence that the IPs of the users will get exposed.

Something like BitTorrent wouldn't work well for dynamic content such as a web forum.

There is live streaming built on top of Bittorrent. Sure you have to tweak it but it is very possible.
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