881–890 of 1001 posts
Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences. Good to see it.
Freedom of speech for speech you hate is also a social principle - see the ACLU Klan cases. Principles aren't supposed to be easy to keep, otherwise they're hobbies.
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So why are they not being prosecuted if it was a crime? DDoS is also a crime, and equates to mob justice at best in this case.
> why are they not being prosecuted if it was a crime? CloudFlare’s original announcement mentions law enforcement. The bomb threats will almost certainly see investigation; that’s domestic terrorism.
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Would they? I don't think they would any more. Any recent examples? > as a result of other people using their free speech rights. Running a DDoS is really stretching the definition of "using their free speech rights", I think. But firing you from a job or closing your bank account for saying wrong things is "private companies adjusting their priorities" too. I wonder how long you could make a living if you can't use…
Nobody is saying the DDoS is free speech. That is a criminal act. The free speech is the people sharing their displeasure with CloudFlare that are using it.
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Providing information about how to source drugs (and even encouraging people to take them) is not the same as drug trafficking. Erowid is not the Silk Road. As for the second allegation, I haven’t seen any substantiation. But I do know that in some circles any discussion in any context (eg: school) about sexual identity with teenagers has come to be considered “grooming” so I’m a bit suspect about the choice of words…
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There have been loads of recent articles and posts on HN about the type of content Kiwifarms hosts and promotes, easily findable from the HN search bar. Even people who disagree with Cloudflare's actions aren't debating the odiousness of Kiwifarms' content.
That's a different statement though. Twitter hosts some terrible content. Hell, Cloudflare provides CDN-services for some terrible content. But I'm sure you wouldn't say that therefore they exist for the "express purpose" of doing that.
Furthermore, heck, the Wikipedia page on Kiwi Farms has tons of references to primary sources that detail some of the directed harassment, e.g. from one well sourced article at https://web.archive.org/web/20190511184633/http://nymag.com/...
> In the most extreme instance of this, they goaded a 13-year-old boy into masquerading as a 19-year-old girl in order to have phone sex with Chandler (and record it, of course).
This information is so trivially easy to find (just go down the Wikipedia rabbit-hole, or again, read many of the posts on this topic on HN) that I can't believe the requests for "Source?" and false equivalence statements of "lots of companies host objectionable content" are made in good faith.
TBH, I haven't seen anyone really try to defend any of Kiwi Farms' content. The only real question is whether Cloudflare should be in the position to make judgement calls on the level of danger inherent to any of the sites that use their DDoS protection services.
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Providing information about how to source drugs (and even encouraging people to take them) is not the same as drug trafficking. Erowid is not the Silk Road. As for the second allegation, I haven’t seen any substantiation. But I do know that in some circles any discussion in any context (eg: school) about sexual identity with teenagers has come to be considered “grooming” so I’m a bit suspect about the choice of words…
And coincidentally posting dox is not the same as SWATing someone.
Anti-KF people will say they're close enough and anti-Keffals people will say the same about the DIY HRT website & marketplaces it lists.
"We don't do X, but we give you all the information to do it"
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> Maybe kiwifarms is all people say they are "All people say they are" is a site running coordinated harassment campaigns, including SWATing and bomb threats, though. Those are clear crimes. You can't seriously be arguing that CloudFlare or DDos-Guard or whoever shouldn't be allowed to choose not to do business with that sort of thing, can you? Like so many others here[1], your perception thing seems to be based sole…
How have they won court cases over this? That's what I don't understand. They seem to be doing illegal things, and yet there's no legal recourse? Honestly it's just a matter of time until they figure out some way to make it work. They're still on TOR which is probably enough for their most dedicated members. A legal ruling could really tie their hands
I think it’s interesting that so many people see the danger in a Twitter “mob” effectively running Kiwifarms off the public, visible internet, without recognising that Kiwifarms themselves were a mob, with the precise goal of running people (including the recently targeted streamer) off the public visible internet too. The tactics were different, but the goal is effectively the same. The key differences are Kiwifarms…
I think it’s interesting that so many people see the danger in a Twitter “mob” effectively running Kiwifarms off the public, visible internet, without recognising that Kiwifarms themselves were a mob, with the precise goal of running people (including the recently targeted streamer) off the public visible internet too. The tactics were different, but the goal is effectively the same. The key differences are Kiwifarms…
That's seems like a false equivalence to me. They don't have nearly as much as power and influence as the Twitter mobs. Which entire major websites do you think the KF "mob" can get off the internet by political/social pressure?
Also, if there's no avoiding the existence of mobs in the current political climate, it's better to allow all sides to have their own.
> I know who I think is more worthy of protection.
People with backing from almost all social major institutions, corporations, and academia?
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I Keffals broke the law, then that is a matter for law enforcement. It's not the purview of an internet hate mob acting as judge, jury, and executioner. Every defense I've seen of kiwifarms is exactly like yours. Some insinuations about how "distasteful" an individual is, and then an implied "Can you really blame them for going after him/her?"