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Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

thedrive.com

191–200 of 328 posts

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is the guy an idiot?

Tesla claims FSD is in beta. Subjecting unwilling children into this beta testing seems at the very least reckless, if not other less savoury words.

I'd like to know why other adults who did not sign up to part of a distributed beta test are overlooked in your calculus.

Or has the tech industry beaten any semblance of self-respect out of everyone to the point it is just expected the technocrats get to use everyone as guinea pigs?

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#192
post #158
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tesla just closed their whole self-driving office in San Mateo, They closed office full of hourly workers labeling data, because their automated process can do it with less people. Those guys are not AI engineers, they are doing menial work.

And tagged all 200 as fired for bad performance. Just to avoid complying with labor law. Classy move, Tesla.

You know this for an absolute fact and swear to it on first hand knowledge?

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#193
post #138
post #80

Actually, that steering into the oncoming train is just one of several severe instances in that video: * Almost driving right into a barrier because road is closed: https://youtu.be/yxX4tDkSc_g?t=426 * Choosing the wrong lane and getting confused: https://youtu.be/yxX4tDkSc_g?t=666 * Trying to run a red light, right into traffic: https://youtu.be/yxX4tDkSc_g?t=732 * Stopping in the middle of an intersection without r…

That is terrifying! I try to stay away from Teslas I see on the road because they are completely unpredictable. I think I'd prefer being near a poor driver with their attention on the controls to Autopilot with a poor driver not paying attention. Any test on public roads of a system that performs like this should have a professional team actively, directly monitoring it. Not just any rando who happened to be able to…

[flagged]

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t imagine there is a way to get a refund, but if I could I would. 10k on something they won’t even let me beta test because where I live triggers incorrect forward collision warnings too frequently for my driving to be considered good enough. I was skeptical but paid up front, and I’m pretty sure I got taken

I don’t think the “safety score” has much to do with safety. I suspect it’s a way to ensure that only the most obsessed/devoted fans will get access to the beta, since there seems to be no way to get a high enough score through normal driving in a populated area. You basically have to be willing to devote a ton of time to “gaming” your score, rather than just driving places.

Which skews your dataset. People are getting trained to operate Autopilot rather than generally drive safe.

Procrustean bed, hooooo!

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#195
post #106

Here is another idiot "testing" it out in front a school bus. The car wouldn't stop so he had to intervene: https://youtu.be/zQO6RJCUPEI?t=10 I'm continually surprised how it's still being allowed on public roads. Tesla claims it's not an autonomous system to regulators and refuses to provide any data, while marketing it as imminent Level 5 self driving. It seems like it will take someone to be seriously injured or d…

> Here is another idiot "testing" it out in front a school bus. He's anything but an idiot: it helps raises awareness of the serious issues Tesla self-driving have. He was also obviously ready to act immediately, which he did, and no kids were ever at risk in that vid.

Some other individual might not be ready to act immediately. This is really where you want trained safety drivers sent by the engineering team to do targeted testing.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#196
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just can’t understand why you’d give up control to a system that’s clearly still in beta. The cost of failure is way too high to take the risk.

Because they're led to believe all this public beta "testing" actually does something to improve the system. So they go out on roads, enable FSD and click the feedback button when it makes a mistake. It's pure theatre as it does nothing to a system fundamentally poor.

From my observations I can’t show causality, but the three situations where I used the feedback button the most all got addressed.

- my city town inexplicably decided to make dashed white lines on the sides of bicycle lane sharing markers. The Tesla would see dashed white lines, which mean separate lanes going the same way and dance around trying to get into a lane but they were all too narrow. The traffic lane was double wide to account for church street parking, but not marked as such. So it the markings made a tiny center lane and two side lanes that were just a bit too small.

- on winding tree lined roads, when an on coming car first appeared around a bend it would assume the car might be going straight and would hit us. There would be a quick deceleration and dodge toward the shoulder until it realize the oncoming car was actually curving and would probably stay in its lane.

- when the pavement expands to include an unoccupied, unmarked parking lane for a short stretch the car would assume that the road suddenly got very wide lanes and it was too far to the center and jerk over.

At this point FSD does a passable job on my regular daily drives, except one intersection where something in its map is wrong, it wants to exit the right turn lane just before turning right. I don’t let it make turns in contested intersections yet, because it is a little timid and might confuse drivers. But that is improving. Just not there yet.

For exceptions, it does well finding and dealing with construction areas, garbage trucks, bicycles, and pedestrians.

I’d appreciate if they’d add “slightly dodge roadkill”. It will merrily run over the same dead squirrel four times a day with precision.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#197
post #125
post #76

Unprotected left turns are one of the most dangerous situations in driving. I consider myself a competent driver, haven't been in an accident in over two decades, and I barely trust myself to make an unprotected left. I've heard that UPS (used to?) ban their drivers from making unprotected lefts. Not in a million years would I ever trust this maneuver to software. Humans screw it up all the time: https://old.reddit.c…

That's probably a US-specific challenge. Unprotected left turns are much rarer in Europe due to widespread use of roundabouts which are probably much easier to handle for both humans and software.

They are common in Massachusetts but very few other states, though they do seem to be showing up in more places the last few years. I grew up with one nearby in Miami so I've never struggled with them but a U.S. driver facing a roundabout for the first time can be a comical and sometimes dangerous situation.

"There's Big Ben kids! Parliament!"

https://youtu.be/iAgX6qlJEMc

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#198
post #179
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless Tesla owners agreed to Forced Arbitration with Tesla, when buying their vehicle.

IANAL, but I expect that the killer lawsuit will come from the estate of someone killed by a Tesla who doesn’t own a Tesla. No contract = no arbitration or much leeway for Tesla to claim that the driver should have known better.

The fact the arbitration is even a short circuit for the courts is absolutely ludicrous.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#199
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they do it may end up being a very permanent lesson, those things may look flimsy but they definitely aren't. A frontal collision between a truck and a tram in Amsterdam left the tram without so much as a dent, though it did have a couple of scratches in the paint work. The truck could have served as a mold to cast trams from.

Off topic, but ~40 years back, I saw a Dodge pickup truck rear-end a Miata. It stove in the whole front of the truck, leaving the Mazda unscratched. Working as Designed.

Funny, that at first glance it looked like that was going to go the other way. I've seen a similar accident with a two decades old Volvo being hit 'midships' by a recent model Citroen, in spite of their respective reputation for safety that did not at all came out the way I expected. The passenger compartment in modern cars is quite amazing with respect to the kind of crash it can be in and your expectation to be able to open all four doors.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#200
post #179
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless Tesla owners agreed to Forced Arbitration with Tesla, when buying their vehicle.

IANAL, but I expect that the killer lawsuit will come from the estate of someone killed by a Tesla who doesn’t own a Tesla. No contract = no arbitration or much leeway for Tesla to claim that the driver should have known better.

That probably will not get this unhappy customer his "FSD" fee back.
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