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Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

thedrive.com

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Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#101

Post by AlexandrB »

mancerayder wrote: post #43

The comments are a pile-on of criticism and how can this be legal. The question is what percentage of self driving hours lead to a situation like this, is it high enough to determine it's unsafe compared to non autopilot or statistically an outlier?

Someone on here[1] already compiled a list of 7 incidents in this video of a ~30 minute drive. 3 of these look like they could have resulted in a severe crash or even a fatality if the driver did not intervene (the train, proceeding into an intersection on a solid red light, ignoring pedestrians). That's a pretty bad batting average - most people don't nearly crash 3 times in half an hour of driving.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31977352

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#102

Post by salawat »

jaxn wrote: post #45
kypro wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess to pay devil's advocate here the question you need to be asking is if it would still be worth it if a loved one was driving your Tesla and they crashed because your Tesla drove them into a train. Even if Tesla Autopilot was significantly safer than a human driver I know I would still struggle knowing a love one died because the AI in my car decide to make a really stupid (albeit unlikely) decision. Right or w…

I think of it in terms of I am still piloting the vehicle, but FSD is executing the maneuvers. This means that I am able to focus on the bigger picture (looking further forward, paying attention to what is going on in all lanes, etc). I am a MUCH safer driver with autopilot/FSD than without. So, to your devil's advocate, I am sure I would blame myself if my family member died while driving my car no matter what the c…

> The loaner did not have FSD, and there were a couple of times I expected it to stop and it didn't. It was mentally tough b/c it was familiar like my car, but it wasn't my car.

You need to meditate on this. Hard. You're more right than even you realize. Your cars behavior will change on you overnight. Your access to charging infra, or even the capacity to access the full capabilities of your vehicle are locked away, and prone to change from day to day. You don't get to opt out. You don't get to say "No, this is fine exactly as is."

What you believe is your car, is by no means your car.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#103

Post by verisimi »

deng wrote: post #80

Actually, that steering into the oncoming train is just one of several severe instances in that video: * Almost driving right into a barrier because road is closed: https://youtu.be/yxX4tDkSc_g?t=426 * Choosing the wrong lane and getting confused: https://youtu.be/yxX4tDkSc_g?t=666 * Trying to run a red light, right into traffic: https://youtu.be/yxX4tDkSc_g?t=732 * Stopping in the middle of an intersection without r…

Jeez.. everyone's a critic... Tesla's got this! /s

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#104

Post by moneywoes »

tenuousemphasis wrote: post #90
petilon wrote: post #77

Meanwhile Cruise just obtained permission to charge passengers for driverless rides in San Francisco [1]. Cruise has been cleared to charge for rides in vehicles that will have no other people in them besides the passengers. There will be no back-up human driver present to take control if something goes wrong. Why is Tesla so far behind? Tesla is generating these autopilot mishap news on such a regular basis that it…

The answer is that Tesla is creating a general solution, whereas Waymo and Cruise and targeting specific geographical areas which they can map precisely.

Doesn’t most taxis revenue come from city centers only ( 80-20 rule) seems as if Cruise’s solution would be prudent

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#105

Post by belter »

petilon wrote: post #77

Meanwhile Cruise just obtained permission to charge passengers for driverless rides in San Francisco [1]. Cruise has been cleared to charge for rides in vehicles that will have no other people in them besides the passengers. There will be no back-up human driver present to take control if something goes wrong. Why is Tesla so far behind? Tesla is generating these autopilot mishap news on such a regular basis that it…

Presumably, these regulators are the same, that allowed this Tesla very alpha software to be tested on public roads. Also from your own reference it does not seem like Cruise capabilities are much above an amusement park level toy ride:

"...The regulators issued the permit despite safety concerns arising from Cruise's inability to pick up and drop off passengers at the curb in its autonomous taxis, requiring the vehicles to double park in traffic lanes..."

"...vehicles confined to transporting passengers in less congested parts of San Francisco from 10 p.m. to 6 a.m. Those restrictions are designed to minimize chances of the robotic taxis causing property damage, injuries or death if something goes awry..."

"... Cruise's driverless service won't be allowed to operate in heavy rain or fog either..."

Plus it seems the system is another alpha/beta release:

"A Fleet of Confused Self-Driving Cars Stopped in the Middle of a Street for Hours": https://gizmodo.com/cruise-confuse-self-driving-cars-san-fra...

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#106

Post by ra7 »

Here is another idiot "testing" it out in front a school bus. The car wouldn't stop so he had to intervene: https://youtu.be/zQO6RJCUPEI?t=10

I'm continually surprised how it's still being allowed on public roads. Tesla claims it's not an autonomous system to regulators and refuses to provide any data, while marketing it as imminent Level 5 self driving. It seems like it will take someone to be seriously injured or die for any action to occur.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#107

Post by matthewdgreen »

MarkMarine wrote: post #14
ncmncm wrote: post #2

??? I thought that was what it was for. Or maybe for making wacky collision vids on YouTube? Tesla just closed their whole self-driving office in San Mateo, and fired ("for poor performance") most of the staff, directing some to come to work across the bay. For now. People still employed on that activity would best update their résumés. People who paid for self-driving already? I would ask for a refund, in your shoes…

I can’t imagine there is a way to get a refund, but if I could I would. 10k on something they won’t even let me beta test because where I live triggers incorrect forward collision warnings too frequently for my driving to be considered good enough. I was skeptical but paid up front, and I’m pretty sure I got taken

I don’t think the “safety score” has much to do with safety. I suspect it’s a way to ensure that only the most obsessed/devoted fans will get access to the beta, since there seems to be no way to get a high enough score through normal driving in a populated area. You basically have to be willing to devote a ton of time to “gaming” your score, rather than just driving places.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#108

Post by tintor »

ncmncm wrote: post #59
MarkMarine wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t imagine there is a way to get a refund, but if I could I would. 10k on something they won’t even let me beta test because where I live triggers incorrect forward collision warnings too frequently for my driving to be considered good enough. I was skeptical but paid up front, and I’m pretty sure I got taken

Sue, I guess. Seems like they would settle quickly because fighting tens of thousands of lawsuits would look bad. And, maybe anyway cost more than settling.

Unless Tesla owners agreed to Forced Arbitration with Tesla, when buying their vehicle.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#109

Post by belter »

ra7 wrote: post #106

Here is another idiot "testing" it out in front a school bus. The car wouldn't stop so he had to intervene: https://youtu.be/zQO6RJCUPEI?t=10 I'm continually surprised how it's still being allowed on public roads. Tesla claims it's not an autonomous system to regulators and refuses to provide any data, while marketing it as imminent Level 5 self driving. It seems like it will take someone to be seriously injured or d…

No it won't. The US is the land of regulatory capture.

"A Tesla driver is charged in a crash involving Autopilot that killed 2 people": https://www.npr.org/2022/01/18/1073857310/tesla-autopilot-cr...

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#110

Post by ncmncm »

jacquesm wrote: post #54
zelos wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do people really need a lesson to know not to turn just in front of a tram?

If they do it may end up being a very permanent lesson, those things may look flimsy but they definitely aren't. A frontal collision between a truck and a tram in Amsterdam left the tram without so much as a dent, though it did have a couple of scratches in the paint work. The truck could have served as a mold to cast trams from.

Off topic, but ~40 years back, I saw a Dodge pickup truck rear-end a Miata. It stove in the whole front of the truck, leaving the Mazda unscratched. Working as Designed.
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