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Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

thedrive.com

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Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#171

Post by salawat »

js2 wrote: post #114
aidenn0 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In theory, an unprotected left should be easier for software than a human. The issue with them for humans is that there are too many places traffic (and pedestrians) can come from. For computers, once you solve the problem of seeing traffic coming from one direction, Nx the computing power can see traffic coming from N directions. The problem Tesla has is that they still can't do basic things reliably enough

Human drivers are also impatient, distractible, poor at judging speed, and have visual blind spots. But a big problem with a lot of unprotected lefts is poor visibility of oncoming traffic. The car just isn't in a great position to see down the road. Tesla has to deal with that same limitation.

Turns out computers have the same problems without the right hardware and programming, much of which would be dependent on the public to implement.

There's a reason these problems stick around.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#172

Post by ncmncm »

wutbrodo wrote: post #123
ncmncm wrote: post #2

??? I thought that was what it was for. Or maybe for making wacky collision vids on YouTube? Tesla just closed their whole self-driving office in San Mateo, and fired ("for poor performance") most of the staff, directing some to come to work across the bay. For now. People still employed on that activity would best update their résumés. People who paid for self-driving already? I would ask for a refund, in your shoes…

> Supposedly the "important" people are still employed. For now I don't know if you're unaware of this or omitting it to mislead others, but everyone laid off were data labelers. This is completely consistent with a strategy shift to preserve capital: in-house annotation isn't that common for AV companies anyway. And data labelers are 100% the most "unimportant" in-house workers: their job is literally to be as consi…

The news report said "mostly". So, who is being dishonest?

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#173

Post by mnd999 »

LtWorf wrote: post #131
cm2187 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rome?

Once in rome I saw a car parked, a car crashed into it for some reason, and the driver just left the car in the middle of the road, crashed into another car. I do have a photo of that somewhere.

That’s just normal parking.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#174

Post by redsid »

Personal anecdote. I was behind a Tesla on a bit of mountainous stretch (single lane) on my drive home on a Sunday eve - so literally no traffic, and noticed the Tesla was painfully slow and almost at standstill. I realized it was on autopilot and literally sticking to the speed limits although the driver could have easily done at least 10mph over. The big truth that dawned on me was, here in northeast US with mostly single lanes, these level X driving cars are going to stick to speed limits, and am totally curious to see how road rage is going to show up

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#175

Post by ra7 »

bitexploder wrote: post #169
ra7 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they're led to believe all this public beta "testing" actually does something to improve the system. So they go out on roads, enable FSD and click the feedback button when it makes a mistake. It's pure theatre as it does nothing to a system fundamentally poor.

They /are/ the training data and trainers in a very literal sense. Every time they correct or take control over FSD I imagine it gets fed back into the training data. Will it ever create a fully self driving system? Maybe.

It's useful for polishing an already mature system. But FSD is poor at even doing the basics because of their (lack of) sensors. They need more than low quality 30 second video clips if they ever want a usable autonomous system.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#176

Post by amluto »

MarkMarine wrote: post #14
ncmncm wrote: post #2

??? I thought that was what it was for. Or maybe for making wacky collision vids on YouTube? Tesla just closed their whole self-driving office in San Mateo, and fired ("for poor performance") most of the staff, directing some to come to work across the bay. For now. People still employed on that activity would best update their résumés. People who paid for self-driving already? I would ask for a refund, in your shoes…

I can’t imagine there is a way to get a refund, but if I could I would. 10k on something they won’t even let me beta test because where I live triggers incorrect forward collision warnings too frequently for my driving to be considered good enough. I was skeptical but paid up front, and I’m pretty sure I got taken

It’s plausible that the goal isn’t to select for safety at all — the goal could be to select for drivers for whom, for whatever reason, FSD has a chance of actually working.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#177

Post by moritonal »

ra7 wrote: post #106

Here is another idiot "testing" it out in front a school bus. The car wouldn't stop so he had to intervene: https://youtu.be/zQO6RJCUPEI?t=10 I'm continually surprised how it's still being allowed on public roads. Tesla claims it's not an autonomous system to regulators and refuses to provide any data, while marketing it as imminent Level 5 self driving. It seems like it will take someone to be seriously injured or d…

The rough part is how the guy's obviously making a decent amount of money with the YouTube series on Tesla. The more dramatic, the better, which is only going to further incentivise risking others.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#178

Post by TacticalCoder »

ra7 wrote: post #106

Here is another idiot "testing" it out in front a school bus. The car wouldn't stop so he had to intervene: https://youtu.be/zQO6RJCUPEI?t=10 I'm continually surprised how it's still being allowed on public roads. Tesla claims it's not an autonomous system to regulators and refuses to provide any data, while marketing it as imminent Level 5 self driving. It seems like it will take someone to be seriously injured or d…

> Here is another idiot "testing" it out in front a school bus.

He's anything but an idiot: it helps raises awareness of the serious issues Tesla self-driving have. He was also obviously ready to act immediately, which he did, and no kids were ever at risk in that vid.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#179

Post by amluto »

tintor wrote: post #108
ncmncm wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sue, I guess. Seems like they would settle quickly because fighting tens of thousands of lawsuits would look bad. And, maybe anyway cost more than settling.

Unless Tesla owners agreed to Forced Arbitration with Tesla, when buying their vehicle.

IANAL, but I expect that the killer lawsuit will come from the estate of someone killed by a Tesla who doesn’t own a Tesla. No contract = no arbitration or much leeway for Tesla to claim that the driver should have known better.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#180

Post by bfgoodrich »

pwpw wrote: post #39
rainsford wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No snark intended, but doesn't having to constantly pay attention and be ready to take over control negate a lot of the benefit of the self-driving features? It seems like you'd have to apply just as much mental energy to the task as if you were actually driving, so the only real benefit is that you don't have to physically make the motions. In fact in some ways it seems mentally worse, since when you're driving you…

Because your brain is freed up from taking in all of the data points for constantly steering and speeding up and slowing down, it's incredibly less exhausting. Instead, you can focus on observing a lot more of the road and capturing things that you previously would have been unable to focus on. It's not often it deviates from expected behavior and catches you off guard with some radically unpredictable maneuver. When…

I can see how that might be the case for a very new driver, but for anyone who has driven for any period, "throttle control and steering" is completely autonomous and requires negligible consideration. Instead my focus is entirely on exceptional situations. The current FSD seems like I now have to focus on throttle and steering and the exceptions just to keep guard that the system doesn't do something disastrous.

As others have said, I cannot fathom how having to babysit an occasionally suicidal driving system is better than having no system at all. It seems perfectly balanced at the absolutely worst point of both being reliable enough that you stop paying attention, but unreliable enough that it catches you not paying attention.

If an FSD system really let me sit and watch a movie or read or book or something -- if it was that good -- then I 100% get it and would be signed up. But one that you have to babysit seems worse than pointless.

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