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A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

theatlantic.com

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Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#781

Post by the_omegist »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #556
usefulcat wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If being asked to put a glass in the dishwasher is an assault on one's identity, then so be it. But such a person is probably also ill-suited to marriage or any similar relationship.

You’re missing the point. That’s one instance. Marriages are made up of thousands of these instances. Are you going to change your behaviors for all of those? Because I have, and it is tiring. Resentment builds on both sides.

Some people won't understand you. For them you're the only one to blame.

You've said it all : some things are clearly bad (over-drinking, being violent, etc) some are good (virtues etc) and the vast majority of things like laundry are not even worthy of debate.

If you change your self little by little for someone else, especially if it's a one-way thing, you'll end up miserable.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#782

Post by the_omegist »

dragonwriter wrote: post #576
op00to wrote: post #567

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If dirty dishes trigger you, then you need to make sure the dishes get done. You are the principal person responsible for your own well being. You shouldn't force someone to do your bidding simply because you're triggered. I say this as someone who suffers from severe anxiety, and has to work very hard to not bully my family around to accommodate my anxiety.

> If dirty dishes trigger you, then you need to make sure the dishes get done. Eliminating a net source of dirty dishes is an efficient way of doing that. If you want to be in a relationship with someone, and they are triggered by dirty dishes, you might need to consider their needs in order to realize yours .

> If you want to be in a relationship with someone, and they are triggered by dirty dishes, you might need to consider their needs in order to realize yours.

Your argument is circular, don't you realize?

The triggered person should realize their un-triggered partner's need in order to realize theirs...

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#783

Post by fatjokes »

bgroat wrote: post #653
pmoriarty wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a CEO of a $100M+ company came in and gave a speech. His first slide had a PowerPoint, on which he put something like, "3...2...1." Then he said, "3 wives, 2 divorces, and 1 heart attack. That's the real cost of entrepreneurship." Plenty of people who were never entrepreneurs suffer the same or worse.. and do so while earning a tiny pittance of what CEOs make. Lack of money causes all sorts of additional stress on fa…

One of my favourite books is called, "The Man Who Loved Books Too Much" (2010) which is the true story of a high-end book thief. There's a scene in the book where the author is interviewing the thief in prison during one of his (several) custodial sentences, and the conversation goes something like this: Author: You're intelligent, erudite, charming. Why don't you become a lawyer or something? Thief: It takes about 1…

Partners at top firms make 600k? Man FAANGs pay well

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#784

Post by drugstorecowboy »

dre85 wrote: post #550
TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for writing this. I have a question for you, since my marriage ended for reasons similar to this author's. Why is the wife's desire more important than his? In other words, why must the husband live the way the wife wants and compromise is not acceptable (especially if they share cleaning responsibilities) -- compromise could look like "sometimes I do it her way, sometimes I do it my way." Why can't a partner…

I'm in a marriage and I struggle with this same question. I sometimes feel like the things my wife cares about are essentially endless. Like if I bend to "her way" and put effort into consistently placing the dirty cup in the dishwasher, next week something new comes up. Then it's the clothes on the floor of my side of the bed or not hanging my jacket or not putting my shoes away perfectly in the closet. At times I g…

Take a moment and look up Borderline Personality Disorder. "Walking on Eggshells" is a gigantic red flag. I suspect it might change your whole perspective.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#785

Post by mensetmanusman »

the_omegist wrote: post #777
mensetmanusman wrote: post #689

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is one strategy that I enjoy: Start a notes checklist on your phone of what you could have done to prevent the situation in the first place. It will grow to probably over 40-50 things over the course of two months. And you will start to realize as you read the list the types of themes that are upsetting and stressful to her. This has helped but your mileage may vary, it is illuminating though…

Wait. He is saying her demands are neverending and you advise him to keep a list of his failures to guess them ?

It’s not a list of failures, but a list of ideals, e.g. if she gets mad about tripping over your towel, you might write:

-always hang up towel after use

A relationship is like building a house, you can build one with out a ruler, but it will probably be more stable if you use a rule®.

These ideas/rules aren’t all equally important, but they provide a rule for straightening out or constructing a more stable house.

Note: this is related to a whole topic of life satisfaction and rules :)

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#786

Post by ksdale »

DwnVoteHoneyPot wrote: post #636
ksdale wrote: post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haha the parent post literally said that it was ironic that a woman would marry an ambitious man and then complain about said ambition. The ambition, implicitly, being wanting to move to Asia for a job. It seems to me if a woman isn't allowed to complain about moving continents for a job, she's not allowed to complain about anything, and this is, therefore, not a strawman.

So with that logic... if he gets a huge opportunity to run the Asian division which he feels compelled to take despite her objections, then she is not allowed to ask for smaller concessions such as "hey, can you turn off the work phone on Saturdays"? You linking those together doesn't make sense.

I don't see any problem with that, I'm not the one who said it was ironic that a woman would marry an ambitious man and then have problems with moving to Asia. I don't see any conflict at all between loving someone's ambition and also wanting other things from the relationship.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#787

Post by bgroat »

fatjokes wrote: post #783
bgroat wrote: post #653

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of my favourite books is called, "The Man Who Loved Books Too Much" (2010) which is the true story of a high-end book thief. There's a scene in the book where the author is interviewing the thief in prison during one of his (several) custodial sentences, and the conversation goes something like this: Author: You're intelligent, erudite, charming. Why don't you become a lawyer or something? Thief: It takes about 1…

Partners at top firms make 600k? Man FAANGs pay well

The book was published in 2010, and featured interviews from before then.

So let's say a partner at a top 100 firm in 2008, latest?

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#788

Post by HelloMcFly »

the_omegist wrote: post #771
HelloMcFly wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Supporting one's spouse does not mean acquiescing to every opportunity afforded the other. Things are a little different when we're talking about matters of shelter/food/health, but in this situation we're talking about an international relocation of an already successful businessman. He was pursuing personal career and experience outcomes, he wasn't trying to drag his family above the poverty line. And besides, it's…

I find your comment pretty agressive ("Maybe learn something from the person", "This statement is meaningless")... Which is pretty ironic because if saying "everything changes constantly" is meaningless, what about your advice to "learn" from a comment on the internet about a man he doesn't know at all that "regrets" something neither of us really know about ? One example has zero value as a "life changing lesson" an…

> Which is pretty ironic because if saying "everything changes constantly" is meaningless, what about your advice to "learn" from a comment on the internet about a man he doesn't know at all that "regrets" something neither of us really know about ?

The OP's statement was a truism used - in this instance - to critique the wife for not "adapting to change". I think I made that pretty clear in my comment. If you can apply that BS truism here, why not elsewhere? Why not just always go with the flow, never have desires or motivations of your own? Why ever object to undesired life changes?

It bothered me, as you can tell. It's not advice based in the reality of a shared life. Telling someone unhappy with the direction of their life that "getting used to change serves everyone" is terrible, borderline offensive advice. The worst takeaway is to blame the woman for not going along to get along, which dijonman2 sure seemed to be doing to me.

I'll take the critique of my own comment, though my point remains: the person who wrote the article was trying to impart a life lesson they learned a hard way, and I encourage that user (and all of us) to reflect on it and potentially learn something. My "maybe" wasn't passive aggressive by intent, it was meant to be interpreted literally, albeit not expressed in a very considerate way.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#789

Post by coldtea »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #768
coldtea wrote: post #767

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some people just don't want to develop into an adult or be responsible parents. Yes. And it's fine to consider this a problem, and criticize them for it, is my point.

If it's not impacting you, I don't really see the point in passing judgement or criticism. If it does impact you, I think you have to ask why you want to be with who doest share your goals. Forcing change on an unwilling partner is a loosing battle for all involved

>If it's not impacting you, I don't really see the point in passing judgement or criticism.

It affects the behavior of the person, and thus others that had to deal with them - including me, if I'm unlucky enough. Societal criticism of bad personality traits is one of the forces keeping societies functional and habitable.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#790

Post by jrm4 »

captaincaveman wrote: post #501
jrm4 wrote: post #114

I'd suppose the thing I'd warn here: Remember that, by definition, this article was written by a failure -- meaning that the likelihood that they fully understand the situation even now is still pretty low; especially since they're still likely in a sense seeking validation by writing the article. Ideally, you'd like to hear from a success. And at the risk being the horn-tooter, (married for 15+ years), when I read t…

hmmm marriages fail after 15 years too, at what point do you declare success?

Sure, good point -- but I'd guess that there's something like; the earlier the marriage fails, the more likely it's a "correctable behavior or habit" thing, as opposed to something like fundamental like "someone was getting their own identity wrong," or "deeply dramatic external change in circumstances?"
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