A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem • Hacker News Board

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#541

Post by giantg2 » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 9:50 PM UTC

lhorie wrote: post #423

giantg2 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Force the other person to plan weeks of meals, keep the pantry stocked, etc. shines a bigger light on the unseen work and value each partner is providing." If my wife were doing this, our grocery bill would double and it would all be frozen dinners and takeout. I'm not sure I trust her to do safety critical mechanic work either. So maybe switching isn't great for some tasks. Edit: It seems people disagree. Why? All…

Isn't that kind of the point, to show to the partner that you have expectations for how certain things are done in a certain way for a certain reason that they might not have had an appreciation for. It can in fact be an avenue to dig into the deeper communication issues, e.g. if there's a pattern of downplaying expressed concerns or assumptions without actual communications, it's gonna surface real quick if the part…

Sure, for small stuff that makes sense for a one or two time experience. They recommended 60 days. Eating preprocessed frozen diners for two months could be unenjoyable to one party and not the other. They might not care about the added cost too. So it could work if they try to stick to the rules. If they just don't care, then that might suck.

Then for the car issue... even one large mistake could cost thousands or lead to death. If they are supervised, then maybe that could work. But that would at least require enough extra time to allocate 2 resources to the same task.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#542

Post by usefulcat » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 9:52 PM UTC

cycomanic wrote: post #369

andreyk wrote: post #189

"Hundreds, maybe thousands of times, my wife tried to communicate that something was wrong. That something hurt. But that doesn’t make sense, I thought. I’m not trying to hurt her; therefore, she shouldn’t feel hurt. ... There is only one reason I will ever stop leaving that glass by the sink, and it’s a lesson I learned much too late: because I love and respect my partner, and it really matters to them." wow.... thi…

The communication strategy that saved our relationship is not to talk about what the other does or doesn't do, but instead talk about how some things make you feel. For example: "when there is a glass on the sink I feel like I'm feeling undervalued..." the other than needs to first acknowledge how the other feels "I hear that you feel undervalued..." before giving their argument. It sounds very formulaic but it reall…

This is good advice. I would only add that it can sometimes be difficult for a person to know how they are feeling or why. You have to know how you're feeling before you can meaningfully express yourself as "when you do X I feel Y".

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#543

Post by TedDoesntTalk » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 9:53 PM UTC

usefulcat wrote: post #519

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are always told "Accept your significant other - do not try to change them." Why does not that apply here?

There's an enormous difference between asking a person to change who they are versus how they behave .

True. But as child wrote, 'If I just sit around and say everything is "important", does that mean I get to have it my way all the time?'

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#544

Post by yojo » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 9:54 PM UTC

gleenn wrote: post #527

yojo wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it is unimportant to you, and important to her, then splitting the difference doesn’t mean doing it your way half the time. If it instead is important to both of you, then you have a fundamental problem that you need to sit down and work through. Maybe there is a compromise that will leave both of you happy. Maybe one of you is willing to try changing. Or maybe you have an irreconcilable difference and need to spl…

He did mention that he would never care to change his behavior and had two reasons to continue doing it. I guess that doesn't mean it's the hill he would go to die on. I do struggle with the same thing, at what point is it something that's no longer a conversation, you should just change because the other person decided they cared enough about it. Having the wife end a marriage over it also seems ridiculous. If peopl…

I entered into my marriage assuming my partner was negotiating in good faith. If she says something bugs her, it bugs her. Collectively we can either spring for Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy for her, or I can pick up my pants after I shower.

If your partner needs to have their way in all things, then there may be a deeper trust issue to resolve and/or they might not be ready for a committed relationship.

Edit: rereading above I can see it coming off as a little flippant. At the core I believe we all have things we do and feel that are not rational. I don’t think you can reason your way out of them. You can’t rationally argue away a feeling. You can do therapy to try to change it, or you can remove the negative stimulus.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#545

Post by robaato » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 9:55 PM UTC

A good therapist is worth it. Over 20 years of marriage, a variety of issues to cope with between us (kids etc), and difficulty discussing difficult topics. Currently doing an hour a month (or so) with a (good for us) therapist, and stuff is discussed in those sessions that doesn't otherwise get addressed. Work in progress.

Worth it...

(Need to research what is a "good therapist" for both of you - oh and doing it on Zoom makes it a whole lot easier to fit into busy lives - some benefits of Covid)

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#546

Post by usefulcat » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 9:56 PM UTC

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #543

usefulcat wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's an enormous difference between asking a person to change who they are versus how they behave .

True. But as child wrote, 'If I just sit around and say everything is "important", does that mean I get to have it my way all the time?'

If being asked to put a glass in the dishwasher is an assault on one's identity, then so be it. But such a person is probably also ill-suited to marriage or any similar relationship.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#547

Post by op00to » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 10:00 PM UTC

bcrosby95 wrote: post #496

Johnny555 wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But still, I can't imagine not being willing to move to any first world country that my senior executive spouse got transferred to -- as a senior corporate executive they've have a ton of resources at their disposal to make the move as easy as possible. I have a good job that I like, but if my wife told me her company was moving her to Japan for a while, I'd jump at the opportunity.

It's impossible to answer in a vacuum. We live where we live because we're 10 minutes from my wife's two sisters, my wife's parents, and 3 cousins our kids love to play with. Generally, I think the only way we're moving is if they move first. Because my wife's whole family is here. And she spends multiple days per week with them. As do our kids. The idea that she should be supportive of me tearing her away from this…

The idea that a well compensated, educated adult can't survive without an extensive support structure for a few years is questionable. Hell, I haven't had a support system at all - my family was actively abusive and antagonsitic to me, and yet I was able to successfully build a career, family, and so on.

It's just as likely codependancy as it would be support.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#548

Post by StillBored » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 10:00 PM UTC

Woah, so, its his fault his wife was finding things he does, and trying to change his mostly thoughtless behaviors all the time?

Well granted I couldn't see what was going on, but just from the article its hard to find him at fault if like many relationships one of the partners is constantly finding faults in his basic unthinking trivial behaviors. I'm pretty sure that two people living together can find things about the other person that irritates them. That is not really a problem unless its willful (aka he is creating a real problem for the other person, or intentionally subverting them, etc). The much larger problem is the person who cannot control their emotions enough to recognize that the other person isn't doing it willfully and deal with it, without constantly trying to reprogram the other person. Sure maybe in a loving relationship both people try to avoid the behaviors that irritate the other person, but at the end of the day it seems this is a never ending road. A person can teach themselves to put the dishes in the washer, or turn off the light, but frequently this takes time, and sometimes old habits die hard. And then there needs to be an endpoint, and an understanding environment in place to succeed.

So, the constant nagging, complaining and taking it personally when the other person fails? That isn't the fault of the person who fails to live up to an artificial and constantly changing set of requirements.

The long term result of living like this and trying to constantly improve yourself to some standard being set by your partner? Its just going to be intense hatred when ten, twenty, thirty years later you wake up and realize that you have changed everything about yourself and they are still not satisfied.

So, no, unless it was willful, he isn't the one at fault here, she is for inventing things that bother her, and then getting upset when he doesn't agree that dishes need to be prewashed, or placed in the dishwasher individually rather than as a batch, etc. Because when he lived alone or with his parents it was perfectly ok to put them next to the sink and reuse them, and then run the washer when the sink got full, and now its suddenly not.

So, frankly he sounds like the lucky one. Lucky she moved on so he can focus on what he thinks matters rather than trying to meet this other persons standards and being punished for failing.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#549

Post by ksdale » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 10:01 PM UTC

DwnVoteHoneyPot wrote: post #509

ksdale wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marrying a successful, ambitious man does not, in any way, mean that a woman should defer completely to every single career decision a man makes. I'm sure this executive's schedule was already plenty demanding without the burden of moving to another country.

> a woman should defer completely to every single career decision a man makes You're making a straw man argument here... none of the comments above say "defer completely" or "every single decision".

Haha the parent post literally said that it was ironic that a woman would marry an ambitious man and then complain about said ambition. The ambition, implicitly, being wanting to move to Asia for a job. It seems to me if a woman isn't allowed to complain about moving continents for a job, she's not allowed to complain about anything, and this is, therefore, not a strawman.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#550

Post by dre85 » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 10:02 PM UTC

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #493

js2 wrote: post #445

A lot of folks are misinterpreting this article, or just using it as a jumping off point to get something off their chest. This article is not literally about the dirty dish. It's not even about compromise. Rather, the article is really about having healthy communication with your partner. The author's wife was trying to communicate to him: "when you do X, I feel like Y, and it hurts me." But he wasn't hearing it. No…

Thanks for writing this. I have a question for you, since my marriage ended for reasons similar to this author's. Why is the wife's desire more important than his? In other words, why must the husband live the way the wife wants and compromise is not acceptable (especially if they share cleaning responsibilities) -- compromise could look like "sometimes I do it her way, sometimes I do it my way." Why can't a partner…

I'm in a marriage and I struggle with this same question. I sometimes feel like the things my wife cares about are essentially endless. Like if I bend to "her way" and put effort into consistently placing the dirty cup in the dishwasher, next week something new comes up. Then it's the clothes on the floor of my side of the bed or not hanging my jacket or not putting my shoes away perfectly in the closet. At times I get the sensation that it just becomes like waking on eggshells to constantly mitigate somebody's upsetness of irrelevant (to me) things.

I found the article really well written and I think a lot of people will be able to relate to it. Consideration for our partners and compromise is a tricky and interesting domain. I'm realizing more and more that there can be a lot of complexity behind benign everyday situations like a dirty cup beside the sink. Like how can a dirty dish even perturb somebody so much in the first place? Is it related to some trauma or childhood conditioning? Can it be addressed somehow?