A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem • Hacker News Board

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#441

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 7:59 PM UTC

a_puppy wrote: post #407

jacobolus wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's coming from an expectation of femininity that she's internalized. This is a sexist assumption which denies the woman individual agency. One person in a relationship having a higher standard for cleanliness than the other isn’t necessarily the result of some society-wide conditioning. There are plenty of very tidy men and more relaxed women out there in the wide world. And plenty of relationships where both par…

> When people have different standards, they need to communicate and work together to solve problems in a mutually acceptable way. I agree! I don't mean to imply that the "relaxed" standard is better than the "tidy" standard. But my point is that the husband was not being hypocritical. He was not expecting his wife to keep the house to the "tidy" standard while himself only meeting the "relaxed" standard (which is wh…

[deleted]

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#442

Post by defgeneric » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 8:00 PM UTC

Jabbles wrote: post #297

glitchc wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, a lot of these dissolutions are over money and control of the finances. Breadwinners need to treat their stay-at-homes with nice dinners, shopping experiences and pocket money that feels reasonable. A lot of them get it wrong. It’s all about dignity and respect really. Take that away from your partner and they’ll resent you, no matter how much pove there is between the two of you.

I think not calling it "pocket money" would be a good step.

I think you're confusing that with "pocket change" as in a small/insignificant amount of money. Pocket money can just mean that you always have money around that can be spent according to whatever whim or whatever you want to do.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#443

Post by watwut » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 8:00 PM UTC

beckler wrote: post #243

About 10 years ago, I had a internship at Newell Rubbermaid. As part of the experience, the entire group of interns across all the brands got to have lunch with the CEO and basically ask him anything we wanted. At some point, someone asked about his biggest regret. We all expected some business blunder, but he said that he was offered an executive position by Kraft to lead their Asian segment, and that his wife reall…

I mean, moving whole family without consent of partner indeed tend to break relationships. Not being able to take major promotion do cause resentment too, but damm, if my partner moved me to region I don't want to, I would be pissed.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#444

Post by fareesh » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 8:00 PM UTC

Dishwashers have not really caught on in India. I wash my plate or glass in the sink immediately when I'm done. I've done this for my entire life and I find it strange that people postpone it for later. Why would you?

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#445

Post by js2 » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 8:02 PM UTC

A lot of folks are misinterpreting this article, or just using it as a jumping off point to get something off their chest.

This article is not literally about the dirty dish. It's not even about compromise. Rather, the article is really about having healthy communication with your partner.

The author's wife was trying to communicate to him: "when you do X, I feel like Y, and it hurts me."

But he wasn't hearing it. Not really. Now maybe his wife wasn't communicating as effectively as she could. But the author seems to indicate that she was and that he could have done more to recognize what she was saying and to empathize with her. He didn't get it, and now he clearly regrets it. It's too bad a healthy relationship didn't come out of that, but sometimes there's just too much damage.

My wife and I have been together for 33 years, married for 26 of those (we met in HS). I'm extremely fortunate that she's empathetic, compassionate, and has the patience of Job. Because it turns out that for a large portion of our marriage, I behaved like an asshole. She's not confrontational, while I thrive on it. We had a rule never to let a day end angry at each other, but mostly due to faults on my side she wasn't always heard because I wasn't open to listening to her. This built a lot of resentment. It came to a head years ago, but we worked through it and our relationship is healthier than it's ever been.

"You're not wrong Walter; you're just an asshole."

The hard work in a relationship isn't compromise. That's table stakes. The hard work is communication.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#446

Post by globular-toast » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 8:02 PM UTC

xtracto wrote: post #60

axilmar wrote: post #15

The problem in the case mentioned in the article was not with the writer that left the glass by the sink, it's with the other person that was bothered with something so minor...usually these minor things are excuses that cover deeper problems. Above all, marriage is a series of compromises: you give up something for something else. You can't have it all. Personally, I put up with my wife's problematic-for-me but not-…

I am not so sure. In my case, my wife is the "messy" one: Opens a can and leaves the lid in the kitchen table, leaves used clothes all around the bedroom and bathroom, etc. We've been married for 14 years, and the first years it was a constant struggle for me to try to change her behaviour. We even have gotten to the point of raising the divorce card in discussions related to this. But, fast forward to today, I learn…

That's because you love her. The author's wife did not love him.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#447

Post by Diesel555 » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 8:02 PM UTC

I'll just put this here, there is a book which describes exactly what the author realized too late. It's better to learn these things things via reading than in retrospect. I realized I have "Difficult Conversations" many times a day. I wish I had read it years ago, it's a relationship changer.

Difficult Conversations: How to Discuss What Matters Most

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#448

Post by twfree_ » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 8:03 PM UTC

I’m tired of the whole bread winner argument. I understand that there are situations where this fits (i.e immigrants who don’t speak the language or are tied to a draconian visa) but if you marry into someone to have them cleaning your flat you should probably get settled for something better.

In my own case, as a single I was living into 1/4 of the cost of my married life. Because my car was not good enough, my house was not good enough, my clothes weren’t good enough for my salary I got into the overpriced premium for literally the same life.

Soon after my then spouse entered the “why should I work phase if your can afford to pay it all” and decided to stay at home and “find myself again”

I couldn’t bring my friends over because they are dirty, loud or annoying.

I couldn’t travel alone because “I was going to cheat”, so every business trip I had to take during my married live I had to pay to bring my ghost.

After a very stressful divorce I’m back to where I started and cry of happiness when I leave a dirty underwear in the bathroom and no one screams at me.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#449

Post by dragonwriter » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 8:04 PM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #394

dragonwriter wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Plus, if the point of switching is to appreciate the labor of the other person, then outsourcing defeats the purpose. Locating, finding, and managing interaction with appropriate help is labor, too. And it's often a better way of getting the job done, even if the immediately obvious monetary cost is higher.

"Locating, finding, and managing interaction with appropriate help is labor, too." But not the same kind. And really it's minimal once you find a good shop. "And it's often a better way of getting the job done, even if the immediately obvious monetary cost is higher." How so? If I can save $500-2k on maintenance costs every year, that's significant.

> But not the same kind. And really it's minimal once you find a good shop.

Yes, that's an important time efficiency. Expending more effort on the same results is not a virtue.

> If I can save $500-2k on maintenance costs every year, that's significant.

Yes, but possibly less significant than the other benefits you could bring the partnership by not spending time on that.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#450

Post by watwut » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 8:07 PM UTC

nobodyandproud wrote: post #433

taurath wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marrying someone with ambitions doesn't mean the ambitious spouse gets full control over where the other partner lives and the relationships the other partner can have. A partnership is not a contract to have the needs of one partner subsumed by whoever happens to be more ambitious. You don't know what they communicated before deciding to get married. Strange to not be able to imagine being on the other side of it

> Marrying someone with ambitions doesn't mean the ambitious spouse gets full control over where the other partner lives and the relationships the other partner can have. Not the OP nor GP, but I think the person who sought after an ambitious spouse is equally responsible for understanding the trade-offs. The term “married to their career/job” was an old term when I was a child growing up in the 1970 and 1980s. That…

This does not sound like trade off for ambitions. More like ignoring her strong preference and then being shocked it turned out to be straw that broke camels back.