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A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

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Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#421

Post by jl2718 »

JoblessWonder wrote: post #298
beckler wrote: post #243

About 10 years ago, I had a internship at Newell Rubbermaid. As part of the experience, the entire group of interns across all the brands got to have lunch with the CEO and basically ask him anything we wanted. At some point, someone asked about his biggest regret. We all expected some business blunder, but he said that he was offered an executive position by Kraft to lead their Asian segment, and that his wife reall…

Valuable lesson for all of those interns that there is more to life than business.

Or that life affects your business much more than the other way around. Mess it up and you’ll start failing at everything for a million tiny reasons.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#422

Post by biomcgary »

scarby2 wrote: post #314
a_puppy wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an interesting point of view. I don't know enough about their relationship to know whether that's what was going on. But, I do want to point out something else in your comment: > She now has to wash and put away the glass. No she doesn't. She can just leave it there. She can leave her own glasses there, too. The pressure to keep the counter clean isn't coming from the husband. He doesn't give a damn how many…

> it's not that the husband expects his wife to do all the chores, it's that he doesn't actually believe the chores need to be done. This doesn't get said enough. It also not just wife vs husband - we all have different standards and it's a lesson that needs to be learned that usually someone isn't being malicious it's just not easy to force yourself to notice something if it's fine by your standards but not by your…

I have certain expectations how our home should function, but I don't expect my partner to do the work of meeting those expectations. I put them on myself. My partner has certain expectations of how the home should function. They should put those expectations on themselves. Work toward shared expectations should be shared.

I would assert that when one partner works disproportionately toward meeting the unshared expectations of the other partner (than vice versa), they are being exploited by that partner. Society frequently privileges some expectations over others. Consequently, one partner often feels disproportionately entitled to work from the other partner to fulfill their expectations.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#423

Post by lhorie »

giantg2 wrote: post #83
snarf21 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Divorced and looking back, the root cause of this (in my experience) is a lack of empathy. Love is easy to come by while empathy requires walking in someone else's shoes. I understand this Same Fight because I lived through that. It is never about that thing, it is about not being seen. As the author is processing his divorce, it is good he sees that there is value in doing something selflessly. However, I can't help…

"Force the other person to plan weeks of meals, keep the pantry stocked, etc. shines a bigger light on the unseen work and value each partner is providing." If my wife were doing this, our grocery bill would double and it would all be frozen dinners and takeout. I'm not sure I trust her to do safety critical mechanic work either. So maybe switching isn't great for some tasks. Edit: It seems people disagree. Why? All…

Isn't that kind of the point, to show to the partner that you have expectations for how certain things are done in a certain way for a certain reason that they might not have had an appreciation for.

It can in fact be an avenue to dig into the deeper communication issues, e.g. if there's a pattern of downplaying expressed concerns or assumptions without actual communications, it's gonna surface real quick if the partner ruins a power tool (or the non-stick pan, or the monthly budget, or whatever) if they don't follow certain rules.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#424

Post by LegitShady »

jeffrallen wrote: post #399
LegitShady wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Would taking 10 seconds to do this now make my wife 1% less stressed?" An addition to this unrelated to marriage - if it takes 10 seconds, why isn't it already done instead of considering whether to do it or not? I have a personal rule that unless I have another issue that requires attention right now (like working from home being work time, etc) If it take 5 minutes or less to do it I just do it right away and ne…

The other day my wife said, "Ugh, I hate it when you run the dishwasher during the day, because then I have to empty it before filling it." Sometimes you cannot win. But it's still a game worth playing: being married is the best thing that ever happened to me.

if the dishwasher is full I don't really understand the point of waiting for night to run the dishwasher...there's no more room for dishes in it and someone is going to have to empty it either way, and wouldn't it be better to have the dishes inside clean? Do you not empty the dishwasher at all when you start it during the day, and that's the actual issue?

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#425

Post by scythe »

incomingpain wrote: post #330
avidiax wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's time to ask your partner how they feel about the relationship, what they value in your contributions, and what they feel they are contributing, and vice-versa. This is a way for you to learn if you are undervaluing your partner's contributions, or if they think/know that they are free-riding.

I hear you and I'm afraid of the answer. I am extremely conflict averse. I sit at the dinner table hoping to talk every night. She's busy scrolling facebook. Yes sometimes I end up on my phone as well, but I actively make the effort to be there to talk. >you are undervaluing your partner's contributions I am a big believer in legitimate praise and even giving compliments to strangers. Though obviously stearing clear…

>I am extremely conflict averse.

Is this you?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attachment_in_adults#Anxious-p...

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#426

Post by retrac »

stuckinhell wrote: post #232

Resentment can compound over small things, but I've also found from my friends failed marriages that physical attraction is big deal. One or both of the partners let themselves go physically. Now we can't stop aging, but we shouldn't lie to ourselves that physical attractiveness doesn't matter. The Halo effect is a real thing.

> One or both of the partners let themselves go physically.

Exactly. I don't expect my partner to start unbalding. Or to shake those last few pounds that start haunting us when our metabolisms slow down. But my God, I will leave him if he starts wearing stained sweatpants, or adopts the "well I'm bald on top so that means the rest doesn't need a haircut" idea that some men seem to get.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#427

Post by uoaei »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #375
jacobolus wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's coming from an expectation of femininity that she's internalized. This is a sexist assumption which denies the woman individual agency. One person in a relationship having a higher standard for cleanliness than the other isn’t necessarily the result of some society-wide conditioning. There are plenty of very tidy men and more relaxed women out there in the wide world. And plenty of relationships where both par…

I've never heard of men complaining about their female partners being untidy with household things except in the case where they simply do nothing (and that's rare), is that common where you are. My father did all the washing up in our house growing up, and mum did most of the cooking, but he never once annotated me for leaving dirty dishes whilst my mother regularly would complain. Almost every married woman I know…

> it seems to reflect a genuine sex-based divide.

You seem to have an extraordinarily limited and homogenous social circle.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#428

Post by Diesel555 »

MrFantastic wrote: post #360
beckler wrote: post #243

About 10 years ago, I had a internship at Newell Rubbermaid. As part of the experience, the entire group of interns across all the brands got to have lunch with the CEO and basically ask him anything we wanted. At some point, someone asked about his biggest regret. We all expected some business blunder, but he said that he was offered an executive position by Kraft to lead their Asian segment, and that his wife reall…

It's ironic to me when women choose successful ambitious men to marry and then complain these same keep striving to climb up the corporate ranks.

People also change and / or realize what they thought they'd like turns out to not be what they like. You can't know you will like a situation until you are living it.

I think entering a new job is similar, I may think I'm going to really like the job, but then when I'm actually doing the job I realize there are things I didn't consider and don't like it. Luckily, I can quit a job easily. In a marriage - you have to grow together if you want it to work.

There is a book which describes exactly what the author of the article realized too late, it's better to learn it via reading than in hindsight:

Difficult Conversations: How to Discuss What Matters Most

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#429

Post by willcipriano »

lazide wrote: post #413
willcipriano wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wouldn't be a six hour argument if he just said "You are right, I'll clean up after myself".

In my experience? It’s never about that, and if there was nothing to criticize, THAT would be criticized. It’s usually about some fundamental disconnect or unmet need by one of the parties, and without concerted honest effort by both to face it, it’s going to explode sooner or later. The problem being, if they were already prone to spending concerted, honest effort in facing and talking about their problems, they wou…

In my experience it's always about what I'm talking about. My wife often refuses to clean up after herself, I tell her "Please pick up the iced tea bottles you left on the floor" and she goes into a rant about one time 5 years ago when I didn't pick up a something and engages in lots of deflection. Then she says stuff like you said "Your just upset that you have a meeting at work", when really it's I'd like to not pick up after her.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

If your behavior is outside of the social norms (eg. you leave dishes out for others to clean) then admit fault and move on. If they bring something else up maybe you are correct in your thesis but why are you defending yourself when you are being a slob?

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