A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem • Hacker News Board

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#771

Post by the_omegist » Fri, Apr 15, 2022, 11:00 AM UTC

HelloMcFly wrote: post #455

dijonman2 wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the man is providing for the household then I’d argue that the woman should make every reasonable effort to support her husband. Everything changes all the time without exception. Getting used to change serves everyone.

Supporting one's spouse does not mean acquiescing to every opportunity afforded the other. Things are a little different when we're talking about matters of shelter/food/health, but in this situation we're talking about an international relocation of an already successful businessman. He was pursuing personal career and experience outcomes, he wasn't trying to drag his family above the poverty line. And besides, it's…

I find your comment pretty agressive ("Maybe learn something from the person", "This statement is meaningless")...

Which is pretty ironic because if saying "everything changes constantly" is meaningless, what about your advice to "learn" from a comment on the internet about a man he doesn't know at all that "regrets" something neither of us really know about ?

One example has zero value as a "life changing lesson" and one can regret objectively awful things (regretting the feeling while high on drugs, etc).

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#772

Post by the_omegist » Fri, Apr 15, 2022, 11:01 AM UTC

AussieWog93 wrote: post #566

dijonman2 wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the man is providing for the household then I’d argue that the woman should make every reasonable effort to support her husband. Everything changes all the time without exception. Getting used to change serves everyone.

The thing is, he was likely already providing incredibly well for the household and didn't need to move the whole family to Asia. If I pulled some crazy shit like that, I'd hope my wife reminds me who I'm working for and why.

Except if it had negative consequences, you can't be sure his wife would have accepted them.

No single decisions is totally all-bad or all-good.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#773

Post by the_omegist » Fri, Apr 15, 2022, 11:07 AM UTC

nineplay wrote: post #462

MrFantastic wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's ironic to me when women choose successful ambitious men to marry and then complain these same keep striving to climb up the corporate ranks.

It's ironic to me when men marry for any reason besides wanting a docile helpmeet and then complain that their partners have real ambitions, opinions, and goals.

Why is your comment so gender-specific ?

In this current example we don't know anything about their couple history or dynamics.

And going from "she didn't want us to move abroad" to men not expecting their partner "having any opinion" is a strawman.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#774

Post by the_omegist » Fri, Apr 15, 2022, 11:10 AM UTC

RandomChance wrote: post #746

MrFantastic wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's ironic to me when women choose successful ambitious men to marry and then complain these same keep striving to climb up the corporate ranks.

People seem to gloss over the fact that while she married an ambitious man, he also married her. If he did not want her to have equal say in their life (note this is his and hers life being impacted!) he should not have married her.

> If he did not want her to have equal say in their life (note this is his and hers life being impacted!) he should not have married her.

Why equal ? Can (s)he have an _equal_ say in the next car purchase when (s)he 1)knows nothing about mechanics 2)doesn't work etc... ?

I don't get some people's obsession with equality in every aspects of life...

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#775

Post by the_omegist » Fri, Apr 15, 2022, 11:20 AM UTC

yojo wrote: post #502

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for writing this. I have a question for you, since my marriage ended for reasons similar to this author's. Why is the wife's desire more important than his? In other words, why must the husband live the way the wife wants and compromise is not acceptable (especially if they share cleaning responsibilities) -- compromise could look like "sometimes I do it her way, sometimes I do it my way." Why can't a partner…

If it is unimportant to you, and important to her, then splitting the difference doesn’t mean doing it your way half the time. If it instead is important to both of you, then you have a fundamental problem that you need to sit down and work through. Maybe there is a compromise that will leave both of you happy. Maybe one of you is willing to try changing. Or maybe you have an irreconcilable difference and need to spl…

You omit the fact to some people _anything_ is important and for some nearly _nothing_ is. That would lead to a de facto master/slave-like relationship.

People's desire to shape the relationship (and hence their partner's) is asymmetrical.

In your example, you don't mention what _you_ made her change to compromise with something _you_ felt was important (and i don't want any answer, as it's something private). It just that it sounded like the classic "married with children"/"the simpsons" premise...

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#776

Post by the_omegist » Fri, Apr 15, 2022, 11:26 AM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #725

redbar0n wrote: post #724

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, it’s not really about coldly «saying something is important». I think the question is really better restated as: What if one person just feels more strongly about things (most or all of the time)? Should feelings always trump? Should feelings always be allowed to trump rationality/proportionality in a marriage conflict? PS: > You're approaching the topic of a healthy marriage from game theory made me laug…

> What if one person just feels more strongly about things (most or all of the time)? Should feelings always trump? Should feelings always be allowed to trump rationality/proportionality in a marriage conflict? It depends if to you “marriage” is a business transaction or an emotional relationship. Though there are likely to be problems if you a x your partner envision it differently.

Transactional Analysis and Eric Berne (author of The Games People Play) disagree.

Emotions and (business) transactions are not mutually exclusive.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#777

Post by the_omegist » Fri, Apr 15, 2022, 11:29 AM UTC

mensetmanusman wrote: post #689

dre85 wrote: post #550

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in a marriage and I struggle with this same question. I sometimes feel like the things my wife cares about are essentially endless. Like if I bend to "her way" and put effort into consistently placing the dirty cup in the dishwasher, next week something new comes up. Then it's the clothes on the floor of my side of the bed or not hanging my jacket or not putting my shoes away perfectly in the closet. At times I g…

Here is one strategy that I enjoy: Start a notes checklist on your phone of what you could have done to prevent the situation in the first place. It will grow to probably over 40-50 things over the course of two months. And you will start to realize as you read the list the types of themes that are upsetting and stressful to her. This has helped but your mileage may vary, it is illuminating though…

Wait. He is saying her demands are neverending and you advise him to keep a list of his failures to guess them ?

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#778

Post by the_omegist » Fri, Apr 15, 2022, 11:34 AM UTC

AussieWog93 wrote: post #571

dre85 wrote: post #550

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in a marriage and I struggle with this same question. I sometimes feel like the things my wife cares about are essentially endless. Like if I bend to "her way" and put effort into consistently placing the dirty cup in the dishwasher, next week something new comes up. Then it's the clothes on the floor of my side of the bed or not hanging my jacket or not putting my shoes away perfectly in the closet. At times I g…

>Like if I bend to "her way" and put effort into consistently placing the dirty cup in the dishwasher, next week something new comes up. Then it's the clothes on the floor of my side of the bed or not hanging my jacket or not putting my shoes away perfectly in the closet. At times I get the sensation that it just becomes like waking on eggshells to constantly mitigate somebody's upsetness of irrelevant (to me) things…

I wished your comment was satire until the last word...

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#779

Post by the_omegist » Fri, Apr 15, 2022, 11:40 AM UTC

rout39574 wrote: post #523

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for writing this. I have a question for you, since my marriage ended for reasons similar to this author's. Why is the wife's desire more important than his? In other words, why must the husband live the way the wife wants and compromise is not acceptable (especially if they share cleaning responsibilities) -- compromise could look like "sometimes I do it her way, sometimes I do it my way." Why can't a partner…

Translated into a slightly different venue: if partner A's sense of order is jarred by laundry near, and not in, hamper, but partner B just doesn't care, then the steady state is A always cleaning up after B. A's happiness depends on a certain degree of order in the shared space, and B is oblivious to that degree of order. Or more likely, it requires a conscious exercise of effort to perceive the degree of order. If…

Those degrees of happiness can't be measured, especially on the long run.

And your demonstration can be flipped easily : if A's happiness degree is so strongly correlated to the way laundry is processed to the point that changing B's natural way of doing things seems a crucial matter, then perhaps B should figure out how low his value is.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#780

Post by the_omegist » Fri, Apr 15, 2022, 11:43 AM UTC

usefulcat wrote: post #546

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #543

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True. But as child wrote, 'If I just sit around and say everything is "important", does that mean I get to have it my way all the time?'

If being asked to put a glass in the dishwasher is an assault on one's identity, then so be it. But such a person is probably also ill-suited to marriage or any similar relationship.

If seeing a glass not put in the dishwasher is an assault on one's identity, then so be it. But such a person is probably also ill-suited to marriage or any similar relationship.