Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

theatlantic.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

721–730 of 812 posts

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#721

Post by coldtea »

dre85 wrote: post #668
AussieWog93 wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Like if I bend to "her way" and put effort into consistently placing the dirty cup in the dishwasher, next week something new comes up. Then it's the clothes on the floor of my side of the bed or not hanging my jacket or not putting my shoes away perfectly in the closet. At times I get the sensation that it just becomes like waking on eggshells to constantly mitigate somebody's upsetness of irrelevant (to me) things…

Fair enough, although I think the term "slob" is a bit extreme here. I would say that I'm just not very into what I would call "organization for the sake of organization". For example: 1. As the author already mentions, why put a cup into the dishwasher if you plan on using it again? 2. Why fold and put away my pants if I wear the same pants everyday for a week? 3. Why hang my jacket if I know I'm leaving again in an…

Considering 1-4, the term slob might not be that extreme :)

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#722

Post by zild3d »

captaincaveman wrote: post #501
jrm4 wrote: post #114

I'd suppose the thing I'd warn here: Remember that, by definition, this article was written by a failure -- meaning that the likelihood that they fully understand the situation even now is still pretty low; especially since they're still likely in a sense seeking validation by writing the article. Ideally, you'd like to hear from a success. And at the risk being the horn-tooter, (married for 15+ years), when I read t…

hmmm marriages fail after 15 years too, at what point do you declare success?

I wonder if the lindy effect applies to marriages?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindy_effect

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#723

Post by redbar0n »

js2 wrote: post #445

A lot of folks are misinterpreting this article, or just using it as a jumping off point to get something off their chest. This article is not literally about the dirty dish. It's not even about compromise. Rather, the article is really about having healthy communication with your partner. The author's wife was trying to communicate to him: "when you do X, I feel like Y, and it hurts me." But he wasn't hearing it. No…

I think the reason the author wasn’t _hearing it_ was that what she said didn’t make _sense_ to him. He couldn’t see the rationality of her argument (ratio = proportion), evidenced by his estimation that her reaction was wildly disproportionate. Perhaps because it was never about rationality/proportionality to her. She had a fundamentally irrationally based argument, and sometimes that’s ok and should carry value. The dirty dishes just _gave her a bad feeling_, and his response was akin to saying: but it shouldn’t!

I think the problem goes deeper than communication and listening: _he was valuing his judgement above hers_.

(There’s a word for people who are only willing to listen to their own advice/judgements and not comply with anything that doesn’t make _sense_ to them: headstrong.)

Maybe he valued his judgement higher because his judgement was rational and her point of view was irrational (based on emotions). I think this is a typical problem rational minded people (like HN readers) are likely to face in interpersonal relations. Especially if they have a belief system that values rationality above everything else.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#724

Post by redbar0n »

llbeansandrice wrote: post #646
TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I just sit around and say everything is "important", does that mean I get to have it my way all the time? This is my question, and i would like to hear from OP, married 33+ years, on his attitude about this.

This is an extreme example/edge case and if that's truly the case you are either not participating in good faith or would likely benefit from cognitive behavioral therapy. You're approaching the topic of a healthy marriage from game theory where your spouse is another player/opponent, not from empathy and good-faith participation or even just as a team with a common goal. Is your goal to "have it your way all the tim…

To be fair, it’s not really about coldly «saying something is important». I think the question is really better restated as:

What if one person just feels more strongly about things (most or all of the time)? Should feelings always trump? Should feelings always be allowed to trump rationality/proportionality in a marriage conflict?

PS:

> You're approaching the topic of a healthy marriage from game theory

made me laugh out loud :D

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#725

Post by dragonwriter »

redbar0n wrote: post #724
llbeansandrice wrote: post #646

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an extreme example/edge case and if that's truly the case you are either not participating in good faith or would likely benefit from cognitive behavioral therapy. You're approaching the topic of a healthy marriage from game theory where your spouse is another player/opponent, not from empathy and good-faith participation or even just as a team with a common goal. Is your goal to "have it your way all the tim…

To be fair, it’s not really about coldly «saying something is important». I think the question is really better restated as: What if one person just feels more strongly about things (most or all of the time)? Should feelings always trump? Should feelings always be allowed to trump rationality/proportionality in a marriage conflict? PS: > You're approaching the topic of a healthy marriage from game theory made me laug…

> What if one person just feels more strongly about things (most or all of the time)? Should feelings always trump? Should feelings always be allowed to trump rationality/proportionality in a marriage conflict?

It depends if to you “marriage” is a business transaction or an emotional relationship.

Though there are likely to be problems if you a x your partner envision it differently.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#726

Post by imtringued »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #680
solveit wrote: post #619

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably said CEO wasn't in much danger of poverty though. The entrepreneurship caused his troubles. That other things also could is beside the point.

Many would argue that material poverty is less important than poverty of the soul. This is why poor countries are often much happier than rich countries.

Solitary confinement is one of the worst punishments you give to a human. As you get richer your status will isolate you from other people because you don't share their particular kind of suffering.

One of the biggest problems is the fact that anything you can do can be done better by paying someone else to do nothing but the thing you want to do yourself.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#728

Post by hypertele-Xii »

watwut wrote: post #453
em-bee wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

an unresolved argument (if it's a serious one) makes it difficult for me to focus on work. (as a programmer and sysadmin, being distracted can be dangerous) if it happens in the evening i also can't sleep. so either way the day is ruined. the solution then is obviously to learn to resolve arguments in a short time. actually, resolving the argument itself is not even the issue, but knowing that we still love each othe…

When this sentiment leads to 6 hour long argument and partner missing work because of it, then it is beyond healthy need to finish argument.

Maybe it's a reflection of 6 hours total worth of small arguments missed over a long period due to too much work taking up time.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#729

Post by zelphirkalt »

AussieWog93 wrote: post #692
dre85 wrote: post #670

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the first point which is definitely a blessing even if we can't see it directly. To the second point I would argue (and I unfortunately do argue) that "responsibility" can be a vague and subjective term. Like is it a hard-coded responsibility to make your bed every morning? Some would argue yes and use funny arguments like "ask anyone normal" or "all highly intelligent/successful people do it". I would s…

>I would say it's generally a waste of time unless you're bed is so off that you can't comfortably get back into it. I think the point about making the bed is that it takes all of 30 seconds and makes the entire room look significantly more orderly. One of the highest-ROI cleaning tasks, in terms of time spent vs. tidiness gained.

The actual reason to make ones bed is to let air circulate in the parts of the bed, that potentialy have been sweaty all night, which increases hygiene. At least in my book that is the main reason. Secondary reason might be, that it is nicer to let oneself fall into a nicely made bed at night. Third might be, that it looks more orderly.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#730

Post by zelphirkalt »

redbar0n wrote: post #723
js2 wrote: post #445

A lot of folks are misinterpreting this article, or just using it as a jumping off point to get something off their chest. This article is not literally about the dirty dish. It's not even about compromise. Rather, the article is really about having healthy communication with your partner. The author's wife was trying to communicate to him: "when you do X, I feel like Y, and it hurts me." But he wasn't hearing it. No…

I think the reason the author wasn’t _hearing it_ was that what she said didn’t make _sense_ to him. He couldn’t see the rationality of her argument (ratio = proportion), evidenced by his estimation that her reaction was wildly disproportionate. Perhaps because it was never about rationality/proportionality to her. She had a fundamentally irrationally based argument, and sometimes that’s ok and should carry value. Th…

I finally have a word for that (headstrong), thank you. I have observed this about myself in many situations. People need to convince me of something, by "subjectively rational argument" rather than "because I feel so arguments". While I might be willing to do things that do not take much effort, even when they do not make that much sense, depending on the standing the other person has in my book, I am not willing to do things, that I am not convinced are making sense, when they go against my principles. And I do have some of those. Headstrong it is then.
Post reply on HN