A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem • Hacker News Board

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#611

Post by throwaway0a5e » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 10:56 PM UTC

Twounwhe wrote: post #574

throwawayboise wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can pretty much guarantee that the wife did not say "When you leave a dirty dish by the sink, I feel like you won't do a simple thing that you know will make me happier, and that hurts me and causes me to doubt that you would do anyhing for me that required more effort." Instead, she just griped about the dish. Men are not that perceptive unless they've already been educated about this. Women need to be explicit ab…

I will not venture a guess as to whether the author's wife articulated her feelings and needs clearly because I do not know either of them. However, I can say that in my own life, I have been quite explicit about how I was feeling multiple times. In my own words: " When you {seemingly insignificant thing} that I've mentioned bothers me, it makes me feel like you don't care about my concerns, and only care about yours…

>Even so, it usually took repeating half a dozen times or more before my significant other exhibited any reaction beyond dismissal (i.e. moving past "It's just a cup. It shouldn't bother you.").

At least you actually repeated yourself half a dozen times. Many people would throw a fit about "you're not listening" before then.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#612

Post by dwaltrip » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 10:58 PM UTC

op00to wrote: post #547

bcrosby95 wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's impossible to answer in a vacuum. We live where we live because we're 10 minutes from my wife's two sisters, my wife's parents, and 3 cousins our kids love to play with. Generally, I think the only way we're moving is if they move first. Because my wife's whole family is here. And she spends multiple days per week with them. As do our kids. The idea that she should be supportive of me tearing her away from this…

The idea that a well compensated, educated adult can't survive without an extensive support structure for a few years is questionable. Hell, I haven't had a support system at all - my family was actively abusive and antagonsitic to me, and yet I was able to successfully build a career, family, and so on. It's just as likely codependancy as it would be support.

It's not that they "can't survive". Their life just might be substantially worse.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#613

Post by throwaway0a5e » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 10:59 PM UTC

kapral18 wrote: post #326

pcthrowaway wrote: post #203

My relationship just ended for mostly similar reasons (it wasn't just glasses in the sink, it was a few other things I did that she considered disrespectful that seemed minor to me) I was the only one working and paying for the apartment, her hobbies, and school, but things like the above would escalate into long arguments that I would ask to defer. The problem was, I would sometimes forget details that were importan…

When you are the only one paying for apartment, hobbies and school, since those "minor" things are out of her mind she has all the time and energy to ngaf about it and bloat her ego, manipulate and gaslight you into thinking you are not good enough boyfriend... husband... father... These are classic manipulation tricks of narcissists. And the fact that she allows herself to engage in a 6 hour argument during workdays…

>When you are the only one paying for apartment, hobbies and school, since those "minor" things are out of her mind she has all the time and energy to ngaf about it and bloat her ego, manipulate and gaslight you into thinking you are not good enough boyfriend... husband... father...

And even "normal" people can slip into this if left with little responsibility in the household.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#614

Post by makeitdouble » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 11:00 PM UTC

belval wrote: post #227

pcthrowaway wrote: post #203

My relationship just ended for mostly similar reasons (it wasn't just glasses in the sink, it was a few other things I did that she considered disrespectful that seemed minor to me) I was the only one working and paying for the apartment, her hobbies, and school, but things like the above would escalate into long arguments that I would ask to defer. The problem was, I would sometimes forget details that were importan…

Honestly from the description you give, I wouldn't assign blame but it was probably the right call to break it off. 6 hours arguments that need to happen right now are a pretty big red flag...

> need to happen right now

This is usually the result of the argument never happening otherwise.

I’ve been on the other end, trying to bring a subject for 10, 20 times. But it’s a big enough issue that when it’s brought up the other party feels they “need more head space”, “not ready now”, “need to get rid of some other stuff first”.

This probably means I’m not reading the room well enough, but thing is, the other party doesn’t come back to the discussion table when they’re ready to talk it out.

So at some point you come to the conclusion that timing doesn’t really matter, and except if their parents are literally on their dying bed, you’ll have to plow through their circumstances if you ever want that discussion to happen. So we ended up with a 3h hour cry and sob discussion in a parking lot after buying toilet paper in the middle of the night.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#615

Post by webmobdev » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 11:01 PM UTC

dre85 wrote: post #550

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for writing this. I have a question for you, since my marriage ended for reasons similar to this author's. Why is the wife's desire more important than his? In other words, why must the husband live the way the wife wants and compromise is not acceptable (especially if they share cleaning responsibilities) -- compromise could look like "sometimes I do it her way, sometimes I do it my way." Why can't a partner…

I'm in a marriage and I struggle with this same question. I sometimes feel like the things my wife cares about are essentially endless. Like if I bend to "her way" and put effort into consistently placing the dirty cup in the dishwasher, next week something new comes up. Then it's the clothes on the floor of my side of the bed or not hanging my jacket or not putting my shoes away perfectly in the closet. At times I g…

> At times I get the sensation that it just becomes like waking on eggshells to constantly mitigate somebody's upsetness of irrelevant (to me) things.

If you are not the one with the issues, then it sounds like your wife may be an Obsessive Compulsive Personality Type - this type of personality has a need for orderliness, neatness, perfectionism and mental and interpersonal control. Basically, their thinking is that they have "figured out" a process for doing something, and if that process is not followed to the dot, it will not result in the desired optimal / perfect result (this causes them anxiety, which makes them feel that they are losing control over their life / relationship, and they become even more obsessed and compulsive to "regain" control).

They are a bit difficult to live with, even if they can be really wonderful, caring and loving human beings. Often some counselling for anxiety (consider cognitive behaviour therapy), and insights into how their unrealistic expectation and actions can be troubling in a relationship can often make them more empathetic to the other person in a relationship, and smooth things over.

(Be wary, as my assumptions about your wife could be quite wrong. Best to consult a therapist).

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#616

Post by gamesbrainiac » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 11:01 PM UTC

There is a lot to learn from the article. It is easier to be right, and harder to show compassion.

A show that I recently watched is called "Scenes from a Marriage", and it starred Oscar Isaac and Jessica Chastain. Best marriage education I ever got.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#617

Post by warcher » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 11:05 PM UTC

AlanYx wrote: post #304

RobertRoberts wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a theory I use that helps me with this, the "million dollar gun to the head" theory. Would either of them stop fighting instantly if there as a gun to their heads or offered a million dollars? If the answer is "yes", then it's entirely within their control to solve the problem. The only people I think that fail this are psychopaths, and I think those are rare.

If you don't have experience with people prone to emotional dysregulation, it's hard to appreciate how it works, but you don't need to resort to such an artificial scenario like your gun scenario. People with some personality disorders can be triggered by seemingly little things into anger/rage states for 4-6 hours that cannot be resolved by talking them out, but if someone outside the household (i.e., someone who is…

This is something I have been a witness to in my personal life, and you're right-- I don't have the tools to wrap my brain around this. I'm familiar with disabilities. I get that. You're unable to do this thing that other people find easy. But this.... this is a choice. If you can't regulate your emotions, you can't regulate your emotions no matter the context. If you can function just fine at work, but not at home, that's a choice you're making.

Or at least, that's how it looks from the outside.

I get that people who struggle to control their emotions would push back on that analogy, but I'm pretty accustomed to people creating whatever narrative they need to justify their behavior. Somebody acting badly and then making up a justification is something I deal with nearly every day.

It's hard for me to get a better justification than "maybe your 'personality disorder' is just being an asshole" past Occam's razor.

Is there something I could be reading about this to get a better picture? I know I'm coming at it from a general place of mental health, so, you know, that's not the best lens, but I also know I'm not crazy for thinking like this. Just maybe missing a puzzle piece.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#618

Post by throwaway0a5e » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 11:05 PM UTC

a_puppy wrote: post #275

rhacker wrote: post #251

This is how I read this. The wife may have long ago brought up some argument that was "banned". In other words - bread winner conversations. Bread winners often have this trait: I make all the money, and I can only do that by working my butt off. So you need to take care of all the other things. No questions. This is why the dishes is such a huge deal now: Since the ACTUAL conversation is banned (by the man) the only…

This is an interesting point of view. I don't know enough about their relationship to know whether that's what was going on. But, I do want to point out something else in your comment: > She now has to wash and put away the glass. No she doesn't. She can just leave it there. She can leave her own glasses there, too. The pressure to keep the counter clean isn't coming from the husband. He doesn't give a damn how many…

>it's that he doesn't actually believe the chores need to be done.

This is an age old pattern.

Pick any ten presidential biographies and I bet you eight of them have some passage about "my wife cared a lot about but I thought it was excessive"

I'm sure someone familiar with ancient literature can find a few ancient Romans saying the same things.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#619

Post by solveit » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 11:07 PM UTC

pmoriarty wrote: post #508

jimkleiber wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate you sharing this. Reminds me of a class I took at the University of Illinois, it was a seminar in entrepreneurship for engineers, if I remember correctly. I believe a CEO of a $100M+ company came in and gave a speech. His first slide had a PowerPoint, on which he put something like, "3...2...1." Then he said, "3 wives, 2 divorces, and 1 heart attack. That's the real cost of entrepreneurship." I've rememb…

a CEO of a $100M+ company came in and gave a speech. His first slide had a PowerPoint, on which he put something like, "3...2...1." Then he said, "3 wives, 2 divorces, and 1 heart attack. That's the real cost of entrepreneurship." Plenty of people who were never entrepreneurs suffer the same or worse.. and do so while earning a tiny pittance of what CEOs make. Lack of money causes all sorts of additional stress on fa…

Presumably said CEO wasn't in much danger of poverty though. The entrepreneurship caused his troubles. That other things also could is beside the point.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#620

Post by makeitdouble » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 11:08 PM UTC

csa wrote: post #349

pcthrowaway wrote: post #203

My relationship just ended for mostly similar reasons (it wasn't just glasses in the sink, it was a few other things I did that she considered disrespectful that seemed minor to me) I was the only one working and paying for the apartment, her hobbies, and school, but things like the above would escalate into long arguments that I would ask to defer. The problem was, I would sometimes forget details that were importan…

If I read this right: - lots of arguments about things you considered small - issues focused on “disrespect”, which is a perception thing that she had 100% control over - needed to resolve issues immediately - “resolution”, if it happened, took up to six hours with no option to end on your side It sounds like she has some major issues that probably warrant professional help. To be fair, you may have issues as well (e…

> issues focused on “disrespect”, which is a perception thing that she had 100% control over

To note, solving that perception thing unilaterally more often than not means leaving the couple

The article touches on this, and many comments too, but even IRL talking to divorced parents, “X just didn’t give a shit about us” is a pretty common thing to hear as the core reason they chose to make it end, even considering all the consequences including the kids.