651–660 of 812 posts
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It's not that they "can't survive". Their life just might be substantially worse.
My life got substantially better when my “support system” died out.
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I think not calling it "pocket money" would be a good step.
That seems very neutral to me? I'm struggling to think of a term that's not worse ("allowance") or less accurate. [EDIT] It just means money that's expected to be spent, but not budgeted specifically for anything, and is largely put to personal discretion without any kind of accounting expectation—no? Some phrase using "discretionary" might also work, but that one seems too technical or formal.
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I appreciate you sharing this. Reminds me of a class I took at the University of Illinois, it was a seminar in entrepreneurship for engineers, if I remember correctly. I believe a CEO of a $100M+ company came in and gave a speech. His first slide had a PowerPoint, on which he put something like, "3...2...1." Then he said, "3 wives, 2 divorces, and 1 heart attack. That's the real cost of entrepreneurship." I've rememb…
a CEO of a $100M+ company came in and gave a speech. His first slide had a PowerPoint, on which he put something like, "3...2...1." Then he said, "3 wives, 2 divorces, and 1 heart attack. That's the real cost of entrepreneurship." Plenty of people who were never entrepreneurs suffer the same or worse.. and do so while earning a tiny pittance of what CEOs make. Lack of money causes all sorts of additional stress on fa…
There's a scene in the book where the author is interviewing the thief in prison during one of his (several) custodial sentences, and the conversation goes something like this:
Author: You're intelligent, erudite, charming. Why don't you become a lawyer or something?
Thief: It takes about 10 years to become a lawyer, with undergrad, law school, articleing, etc. I don't want to do any of that. But say I did, a partner at a top firm makes what, $600k? That's around what I'm alleged to have made this year
Author: But what about the strain on your family?
Thief: Because lawyers don't get divorced?
It continues like this for awhile as the thief very persuasively argues the risk adjusted returns of high-end larceny
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If the man is providing for the household then I’d argue that the woman should make every reasonable effort to support her husband. Everything changes all the time without exception. Getting used to change serves everyone.
The thing is, he was likely already providing incredibly well for the household and didn't need to move the whole family to Asia. If I pulled some crazy shit like that, I'd hope my wife reminds me who I'm working for and why.
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> "Would taking 10 seconds to do this now make my wife 1% less stressed?" An addition to this unrelated to marriage - if it takes 10 seconds, why isn't it already done instead of considering whether to do it or not? I have a personal rule that unless I have another issue that requires attention right now (like working from home being work time, etc) If it take 5 minutes or less to do it I just do it right away and ne…
That works for you. I prefer to plan and psych myself up for this stuff. Don't expect everyone to want to handle household tasks exactly on your schedule.
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Reading that is wild…does he think he’ll be able to bear the burdens his wife couldn’t? He’s trying to change himself for his partner when he needs to find a different partner. He comes off as having lost all respect and confidence in himself.
I read the article and felt sad. There's a lot of emotionally charged language (repeatedly: "I was a shitty husband"), but stripping away that language, his main point is consistent with his Atlantic article. Namely, that while he tried to be a good husband for the 'big issues' (e.g. never cheating), he was neglectful for the little things, and didn't give her enough attention or care. My interpretation is that the d…
While this isn't really wrong I think it just derails what the main point of the article is.
>'big issues' (e.g. never cheating)
This baseline of "at least I don't cheat" or "at least I can provide" (implicitly saying things like "at least I'm not a drunk/drug-addict/bum") is so laughably low. His wife left because she wasn't happy and didn't feel agency. It's _possible_ she could ahve communicated things in a way that finally got through to him, but the vast vast majority of the emotional introspection and reflection is absolutely on his side.
Another comment said it: compromise and such are table stakes. They're nothing. The real goal is to be in a happy and healthy marriage. To support, listen to, and empathize with your partner, and to get the same back. From that perspective I don't see how you can come away with any other conclusion than he was, genuinely a shitty husband in many ways.
No body is perfect, and the real hard work in a relationship is communication. But if you're approaching it from a perspective of game theory and compromise and winning battles about chores, you're being a shitty spouse.
I'd suppose the thing I'd warn here: Remember that, by definition, this article was written by a failure -- meaning that the likelihood that they fully understand the situation even now is still pretty low; especially since they're still likely in a sense seeking validation by writing the article. Ideally, you'd like to hear from a success. And at the risk being the horn-tooter, (married for 15+ years), when I read t…
1. Misery is a function of expectations management. As is said, every relationship is different. Expectations could range everywhere from
"You are an adult and this is your house, too. Clean up after yourself like an adult who owns a house."
to what is common in our house,
"Housework gets done when it gets done. Fortunately we live in an area that doesn't have roaches."
It is notable that the author does little more than speculate on his wife's expectations. After that many disagreements, not fully understanding the other person's expectations is a big red flag. We can argue all day long as to whose responsibility the understanding is; that is also a big red flag.
2. It's not about the work you do, it's about the work you make. This one is a big deal to me, since I grew up in a family that expected me to clean up after them. All the laundry, dishes, yard and additional housework was my job starting when I was 10. And no matter how well or poorly I did, chances were high that I was going to get hit for something. Note that the author does not provide any of this context. His wife very well may have been looking forward to spending the rest of her life with a partner who was an adult who didn't leave crap laying around, knowing that it would somehow magically reappear clean in its designated storage location. Or she could just be uptight.
3. No relationship of any kind is fire and forget. It is a daily commitment to a complicated matrix of rules and accommodations, all of which has a cost. If a person does the cost/benefit analysis of doing this work and decides it's not worth it, hurt feelings and financial implications aside, it's not worth it. This is not only true of marriages, it's also the case for friendships, family, employers and coworkers. We're making hundreds of these calculations every day. It's a thing we do to feel safe. When the benefit does not outweigh the cost, you don't feel safe. That's bad for everyone's health.
4. It takes 5 positive experiences of someone to reconcile one negative one. I think I read another comment that was adjacent to this. I see this as sort of an economy of deposits and withdrawals, and that's not a particularly original analogy. At the end of the day, we are social animals; both small and large gestures of allegiance foster an environment of safety and comfort. Our lizard brain needs these things.
5. Capuchin monkeys prefer grapes. Fairness is a reflex. It is not rational and does not respond to logic. Though I can respect, "I might want to use it again."
Im 99% sure the wife in this story used the glass as an excuse to get out. If youre happy with the life youve built together and love your partner theres no way you leave it over something like this. I dont buy the "it shows disrespect" argument. Shes going to be with somebody else in a years time. But when youre in a bad situation and the other person isn't giving you a good reason to leave sometimes you have to get…
> But when youre in a bad situation and the other person isn't giving you a good reason to leave sometimes you have to get creative. Why is it necessary for the other person to give you a "good" reason to leave? Why not just be honest and say "this is not for me, I'm leaving"?
but usually the other person will ask "what did I do wrong?".
and you can be really honest and possibly hurtful; " i dont find you attractive anymore.", "i think i can do better", etc...
or you could ramble on about the glass by the sink.
either one is going to make the other person feel bad
This is how I read this. The wife may have long ago brought up some argument that was "banned". In other words - bread winner conversations. Bread winners often have this trait: I make all the money, and I can only do that by working my butt off. So you need to take care of all the other things. No questions. This is why the dishes is such a huge deal now: Since the ACTUAL conversation is banned (by the man) the only…
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If it is unimportant to you, and important to her, then splitting the difference doesn’t mean doing it your way half the time. If it instead is important to both of you, then you have a fundamental problem that you need to sit down and work through. Maybe there is a compromise that will leave both of you happy. Maybe one of you is willing to try changing. Or maybe you have an irreconcilable difference and need to spl…
Right, you do this small act of service because you are in love with your partner. Ideally not even because it makes her happy, but because it makes you happy to make her happy. The upshot of the article, IMO, is that they were no longer in love. And that lack of love became most apparent by observing all the tiny acts of service that people in love do for each other, and people who are merely co-habitating and perha…