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AEG combi microwave unusable after update: device thinks it is a steam oven

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Re: AEG combi microwave unusable after update: device thinks it is a steam oven

#101

Post by rootusrootus »

gpvos wrote: post #89
Nextgrid wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't need extra hardware. Most routers have some rudimentary TFTP boot mode that can be accessed by powering it up while holding a certain button. The device already has Wi-Fi, so the same mechanism can be used - if powered up in recovery mode, it'll scan for a specific SSID and then TFTP boot from a specific IP on there.

The percentage of microwave users that could perform such a trick rounds down to zero.

Eh, I think you're being uncharitable. My 80 year old mother could definitely figure out how to hold down a button while turning the thing off and on. We've been living with some version of that reality for decades.

Re: AEG combi microwave unusable after update: device thinks it is a steam oven

#102

Post by TonyTrapp »

PinguTS wrote: post #53
TonyTrapp wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think already in the 80s AEG's inofficial slogan was "Ausgepackt - Eingeschaltet - Geht nicht" (unwrapped, turned on, didn't work).

Ausschalten – Einschalten – Geht (aka: have tried switching it off and on again)

Not in this case apparently ;)

Re: AEG combi microwave unusable after update: device thinks it is a steam oven

#103

Post by macintux »

Nextgrid wrote: post #94
gpvos wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The percentage of microwave users that could perform such a trick rounds down to zero.

So is the percentage of router users... and yet those debug modes are there because they cost nothing and can be useful in "oh shit" moments like these.

A router being down is potentially catastrophic for a household/business. Certainly more important (under most circumstances) than a microwave oven.

Re: AEG combi microwave unusable after update: device thinks it is a steam oven

#104

Post by numpad0 »

ggreg84 wrote: post #76
fatnoah wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm starting a kitchen upgrade, and the number of "connected" kitchen appliances is astonishing. I don't need my faucet to have Alexa, I don't want to read news on my refrigerator, and I don't want an app for my oven. I'm not aware of any companies keeping servers running for a product that matches the life expectancy of a kitchen appliance, nor do I want an AWS outage to keep me from making nachos.

Buy professional appliances, for restaurants. For some reason, they are often better along many axes: cheaper, easier to clean, more customizable, more powerful, more flexible, etc. I really like the professional induction stoves, with actual physical dials, no touch crap. And the best part, there is a huge used market for professional appliances in really good shape, for even lower price.

Until the day it starts asking your support contract number…

Re: AEG combi microwave unusable after update: device thinks it is a steam oven

#105

Post by civilized »

ggreg84 wrote: post #76
fatnoah wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm starting a kitchen upgrade, and the number of "connected" kitchen appliances is astonishing. I don't need my faucet to have Alexa, I don't want to read news on my refrigerator, and I don't want an app for my oven. I'm not aware of any companies keeping servers running for a product that matches the life expectancy of a kitchen appliance, nor do I want an AWS outage to keep me from making nachos.

Buy professional appliances, for restaurants. For some reason, they are often better along many axes: cheaper, easier to clean, more customizable, more powerful, more flexible, etc. I really like the professional induction stoves, with actual physical dials, no touch crap. And the best part, there is a huge used market for professional appliances in really good shape, for even lower price.

Can you recommend any particular sellers?

My oven stops working with some nonsensical error message when I try to use it above 350F, so I'm in the market for a new one.

Re: AEG combi microwave unusable after update: device thinks it is a steam oven

#106

Post by throw10920 »

fatnoah wrote: post #30
DiabloD3 wrote: post #16

I refuse to own an oven that is internet connected. If my oven has enough of a computer to have a firmware that can be updated remotely, it is too dangerous to own.

I'm starting a kitchen upgrade, and the number of "connected" kitchen appliances is astonishing. I don't need my faucet to have Alexa, I don't want to read news on my refrigerator, and I don't want an app for my oven. I'm not aware of any companies keeping servers running for a product that matches the life expectancy of a kitchen appliance, nor do I want an AWS outage to keep me from making nachos.

Now that you're actually in the process of upgrading, I suggest you take advantage of the fact that you're an actually-paying customer to slightly influence the retailer(s) you buy from.

"Can you show me only the non-smart appliances, please? Oh, you don't have any? Are you sure, can you ask the manager? Alright, I'm not interested in anything, have a nice day."

Sure, it doesn't mean very much on your own, but neither does voting - the value is in collective action. If everyone who specifically doesn't want a smart appliance, smart car, or smart TV makes a big deal about it, then manufacturers and retailers will start to notice.

Re: AEG combi microwave unusable after update: device thinks it is a steam oven

#107

Post by wpietri »

ncr100 wrote: post #45
jaywalk wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My oven is Internet connected. It can't be turned on remotely unless I press a button on the oven itself, and even then it'll only allow it once. The WiFi functionality is also such total garbage that it'll only stay connected for a few days, and requires physically unplugging and re-plugging the power to the oven to get it to reconnect.

How did software engineering get to the point where this kind of low quality update is shipped "too often" for serious circumstances like a physical oven? Like it's hardly notable news anymore for something like this to happen. It's frequent. I worry that agile is largely responsible, and has mutated into a pipeline for garbage, though I don't have any evidence to confirm that suspicion.

I don't think "Agile" is responsible, but it is a supporting character here for sure. Let me give a little history from my perspective.

I got involved in that movement before the word "Agile" existed; I was really interested in the ideas coming from the Extreme Programming folks and had tried them out on a small project in 2000. All of the people I met early on really wanted to do software well; the question was how to do it well and responsively. Unit and acceptance tests were just part of the process [1], and Kent Beck also wrote Test Driven Development By Example [2] around then. So in my view there was strong early interest in quality.

But this was all happening during the rise of the internet, which changed people's expectations for software delivery. Previously, releasing every 18 months was seen as reasonable. Suddenly the web was changing people's expectations. (Although not as fast as you'd think; a consultant pal told me in 2004 that Weight Watchers still had an annual release cycle for their website.) Executives and managers were under pressure to deliver faster.

As I wrote about elsewhere [3], that created a need for Agile that was filled not by the humanistic culture and quality-oriented practices of my end of the Agile world, but by consultants and certification programs watering down the material until executives could slap some new labels on their same old bullshit and call it Agile.

It turns out that bullshit long predates Agile. If you go back to Royce's original 1970 paper on Waterfall [4], one of his big points is that it doesn't work. Why, then, did it become the predominant way to organize software projects? Because it feels good to managers. For most of the project, it gives them a feeling of control and competence. That feeling is false, as it just delays all of the real-world feedback until near the nominal end. But they can perform confidence and competence to their boss, which is vital in managerialist [5] organizations.

So I totally agree with you that Agile on average has mutated into a garbage pipeline. And that happened through a whole industry that produced manager-friendly process theater that threw out a quality focus and most of the Agile values, while using the Agile labels. But I think the real responsibility lies in our management culture and values, which both precedes Agile and whose harm extends well beyond it.

[1] http://www.extremeprogramming.org/map/loops.html

[2] https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/test-driven-development...

[3] https://web.archive.org/web/20170923232057/http://agilefocus...

[4] https://pragtob.wordpress.com/2012/03/02/why-waterfall-was-a...

[5] See, e.g., https://www.bloomsbury.com/us/confronting-managerialism-9781...

Re: AEG combi microwave unusable after update: device thinks it is a steam oven

#109

Post by rootusrootus »

kop316 wrote: post #87
fatnoah wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm starting a kitchen upgrade, and the number of "connected" kitchen appliances is astonishing. I don't need my faucet to have Alexa, I don't want to read news on my refrigerator, and I don't want an app for my oven. I'm not aware of any companies keeping servers running for a product that matches the life expectancy of a kitchen appliance, nor do I want an AWS outage to keep me from making nachos.

At first I thought you were exaggerating with the faucet with Alexa: https://www.homedepot.com/b/Smart-Home-Smart-Kitchen-Smart-F...

I wouldn't buy one. Especially at that price point. But I admit that a faucet which could reliably do things like "dispense 6 ounces of water" is kind of a neat idea. But I wouldn't want it tied to Amazon or anything like that. It'd need to be self-contained, with it's own computer, speaker, mic, voice analysis, no internet connection required, and a reliable failure mode that never interferes with the handle working. In other words, something which will never exist.

Re: AEG combi microwave unusable after update: device thinks it is a steam oven

#110

Post by gpvos »

denton-scratch wrote: post #56

Electrolux are a horrible company. They seem to have borged a whole load of other brands, which all have now descended to Electrolux's abysmal standards. - They don't support their own products; the warranty is served by a third-party - Their products are built to a price-point, and fail just after the warranty is up - Spare parts are expensive - They apparently have neither an email address or phone number The water…

I only recently became aware that their home appliances branch had been acquired by Electrolux somewhere in the 1990s. Brand awareness can be slow. AEG used to be a high quality brand for things like washing machines.
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