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AEG combi microwave unusable after update: device thinks it is a steam oven

tellerreport.com

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Re: AEG combi microwave unusable after update: device thinks it is a steam oven

#51

Post by adwww »

tpmx wrote: post #34
DiabloD3 wrote: post #16

I refuse to own an oven that is internet connected. If my oven has enough of a computer to have a firmware that can be updated remotely, it is too dangerous to own.

Imagine an attack on the electric grid that works by startíng a large number of high-power appliances (ovens, EVs, ACs/heat pumps, etc) at max power at the exact same time.

This is actually a big potential for a smart grid - turning on or off demand from things like fridges and ovens in response to the grid frequency changing.

If the grid is very slightly over 50hz it means demand exceeds supply and vice versa.

By automatically switching off the pump on thousands of fridges for a few seconds, networks would require less generation capacity on standby - saving $$$ and CO2.

Of course, like you say, this would leave potential for this to be used in reverse to destabilise an entire grid.

Re: AEG combi microwave unusable after update: device thinks it is a steam oven

#52

Post by Nextgrid »

Why is there no user-facing firmware update/recovery feature, so that at least tech-savvy users can resolve the issue themselves? Or a reset feature that reverts to the factory firmware located on a separate, read-only chip?

Ah yes, it's to prevent people downgrading or running "unauthorized" firmware when they inevitably start adding user-hostile "features".

Re: AEG combi microwave unusable after update: device thinks it is a steam oven

#53

Post by PinguTS »

TonyTrapp wrote: post #25
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #2

AEG consumer electronics are pure trash nowadays and have nothing to do with the OG AEG company. IIRC, it's a Chinese brand now who licensed the AEG brand name.

I think already in the 80s AEG's inofficial slogan was "Ausgepackt - Eingeschaltet - Geht nicht" (unwrapped, turned on, didn't work).

Ausschalten – Einschalten – Geht (aka: have tried switching it off and on again)

Re: AEG combi microwave unusable after update: device thinks it is a steam oven

#54

Post by deelowe »

oblio wrote: post #23
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #2

AEG consumer electronics are pure trash nowadays and have nothing to do with the OG AEG company. IIRC, it's a Chinese brand now who licensed the AEG brand name.

It's Electrolux, Swedish company and apparently second appliance company worldwide by number of units sold.

Electrolux is one of those companies that I avoid at all costs. Everything they make is garbage.

Re: AEG combi microwave unusable after update: device thinks it is a steam oven

#55

Post by ck2 »

I want to point out most cars made after 2004 or so have no physical connection between not just accelerator and engine but more importantly wheels and steering wheel.

So their usability is as good as the software written to control them and the motor/sensor windings, etc.

Not unlike the software controlling that microwave.

Re: AEG combi microwave unusable after update: device thinks it is a steam oven

#56

Post by denton-scratch »

Electrolux are a horrible company. They seem to have borged a whole load of other brands, which all have now descended to Electrolux's abysmal standards.

- They don't support their own products; the warranty is served by a third-party

- Their products are built to a price-point, and fail just after the warranty is up

- Spare parts are expensive

- They apparently have neither an email address or phone number

The water heater in my AEG dishwasher failed three times in six months. Each time I had to wait a month for the repair man to arrive, declare that my water-heater had failed, and come back two weeks later to fit the part.

I don't understand why market forces haven't bankrupted them.

Re: AEG combi microwave unusable after update: device thinks it is a steam oven

#57

Post by Nextgrid »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #2

AEG consumer electronics are pure trash nowadays and have nothing to do with the OG AEG company. IIRC, it's a Chinese brand now who licensed the AEG brand name.

Are there still consumer white goods brands that aren't lowest-bidder Chinese crap? I've learned not to trust brand names anymore and just assume everything is crap and buy cheap stuff that I wouldn't mind replacing at the smallest problem.

Re: AEG combi microwave unusable after update: device thinks it is a steam oven

#58

Post by kuroguro »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #26
quercusa wrote: post #5

I wonder how many €0.01 per unit they saved by not having enough storage to keep the old firmware version while they loaded the new one?

>I wonder how many €0.01 per unit they saved by not having enough storage to keep the old firmware version while they loaded the new one? You're maybe joking, but when I worked in automotive, they really worked hard to save 2mm in length of a thicker copper wiring inside the ECU to save maybe a cent. No joke. Unless you're in the high margins league of Nvidia, Apple, etc, the rest of the HW industry is insanely price…

They would have saved a lot of cents if the device wasn't internet connected tho.

Re: AEG combi microwave unusable after update: device thinks it is a steam oven

#59

Post by paulgerhardt »

DiabloD3 wrote: post #16

I refuse to own an oven that is internet connected. If my oven has enough of a computer to have a firmware that can be updated remotely, it is too dangerous to own.

I have a dozen or more devices that can burn down my house (or kill me in other interesting ways) connected to the internet because I am confident in the precautions taken by the engineers who designed them and mitigating the “hacker” threat model is mostly already addressed by precautions already taken to mitigate failing (“rogue”) controller boards present in their non-internet connected counterparts through 30+ years of iteration.

Specifically my laser printer has a thermal bypass switch, my smartphone(s) have charge controllers integrated into the batteries, my water heater has a pressure release valve, my oven is literally designed to withstand max heat for an indefinite period of time, my garage door is a death trap in four different ways (but has redundant safeguards for all of those), my kettle has has a thermocouple that trips when it boils dry etc. etc.

From a micro-morts perspective, adding “electricity” to an object makes it significantly more dangerous than adding “internet”. Ie going from a hand grinder to an electric grinder. But the utility is worth the trade off.

Re: AEG combi microwave unusable after update: device thinks it is a steam oven

#60

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

kuroguro wrote: post #58
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I wonder how many €0.01 per unit they saved by not having enough storage to keep the old firmware version while they loaded the new one? You're maybe joking, but when I worked in automotive, they really worked hard to save 2mm in length of a thicker copper wiring inside the ECU to save maybe a cent. No joke. Unless you're in the high margins league of Nvidia, Apple, etc, the rest of the HW industry is insanely price…

They would have saved a lot of cents if the device wasn't internet connected tho.

You're underestimating the amount of consumers who value the "Wi-Fi enabled" feature sticker plastered on the box and marketing spec sheet of a product on display at Walmart.

Manufacturers go with whatever marketing tells them will sell and what consumers are buying.

Personal anecdote time: I was part of a team developing a HW product a few years back and one day our boss comes in fumigating:

Boss: "RGB! Management wants us to put damn RGB LEDs in our up-coming products."

Us: "But why, what for? Do they know it has zero usage in our products?"

Boss: "Doesn't matter to them. Sales guys said our competitors have RGB now and customers will not buy our products anymore since they see that the competition has one extra feature we don't have, so we gotta put that RGB in ASAP somehow."

Us: "Ok, and what shall our firmware do with the new RGB LEDs?"

Boss: "Don't know . Marketing is still trying to figure that one out, so we'll code the firmware before the product launch."

I rest my case. This whole consumer industry is absolutely mental.

And so, today everything needs to be internet connected, because it's another feature on a spec sheet that marketing/sales demands.

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