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5 Charged with Stalking, Harassing, Spying on US Residents for PRC Secret Police

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Re: 5 Charged with Stalking, Harassing, Spying on US Residents for PRC Secret Police

#181
post #12

While there is some potential for over-reach, and a kind of stereotyping of Chinese academics, this is not without basis. A lot of them have abused their welcome, and done actions against USA - all while funded by US taxpayer. The Chinese govt has many people in its pay, some willing, likely most unwilling and coerced. But a spying operation is an offense.

China is a dictatorship and any Chinese student can be put under pressure with their families at home. That said, the vast majority don't study in foreign countries to spy for the CCP. But obviously with this leverage there is a limit on what you can say in public. Especially since a lot of platforms decided that there have to be consequences for speech. Those demanding it most strongly just tend not to be the brightest stars in the night sky because that in turn has the consequence of vastly empowering repressive tactics so that people take more care of what they say.

Re: 5 Charged with Stalking, Harassing, Spying on US Residents for PRC Secret Police

#182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain further? "In the 1970s, the Khmer Rouge were largely supported and funded by the Chinese Communist Party, receiving approval from Mao Zedong; it is estimated that at least 90% of the foreign aid which was provided to the Khmer Rouge came from China." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmer_Rouge

[1] > In 1970, the United States had orchestrated a coup to oust Prince Sihanouk, and installed Lon Nol, a general who was supposed to be Cambodia’s Suharto. His forces trained in Bandung, not far from the site of Sukarno’s 1955 Afro-Asian Conference. During Lon Nol’s rule the United States continued to bomb the country indiscriminately, killing hundreds of thousands of people, mostly peasants, in a futile attempt to…

Thanks I hadn't been aware of some of those later points. I found some more referenced in another article[1]. I'll try read the full NY Times link but reached limit of my free access for the month.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_United_States...

Re: 5 Charged with Stalking, Harassing, Spying on US Residents for PRC Secret Police

#183

> You can start thinking now, aside from violence, what other plans are there? Huh? But in the end, violence would be fine too. Huh? Beat him [chuckles], beat him until he cannot run for election. Heh, that’s the-the last resort. You-you think about it. Car accident, [he] will be completely wrecked [chuckles], right? Don’t know, eh, whatever ways from all different angles. Or, on the day of the election, he cannot ma…

I mentioned it the other day in another thread about Tibet where the discussion of political prisoners came up... and it seems relevant here too.

Why does the CCP seem so restrained when it comes to dealing with those that they see as posing a threat. I'm not defending the CCP's actions or tactics, but surely it would be easier for them to cut to the chase and just "get rid" of those that they consider a serious threat or liability to their existence?

We've seen plenty of examples of similar situations where Russia, North Korea, etc... employs a quick and cut-throat approach to foreign nationals/individuals that they identify as a threat.

For the excerpt it's clear that they're willing to kill this individual... why create such risk and exposure for themselves with this drawn-out, ambiguous dubious plot?

Re: 5 Charged with Stalking, Harassing, Spying on US Residents for PRC Secret Police

#184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[1] > In 1970, the United States had orchestrated a coup to oust Prince Sihanouk, and installed Lon Nol, a general who was supposed to be Cambodia’s Suharto. His forces trained in Bandung, not far from the site of Sukarno’s 1955 Afro-Asian Conference. During Lon Nol’s rule the United States continued to bomb the country indiscriminately, killing hundreds of thousands of people, mostly peasants, in a futile attempt to…

Thanks I hadn't been aware of some of those later points. I found some more referenced in another article[1]. I'll try read the full NY Times link but reached limit of my free access for the month. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_United_States...

http://web.archive.org/web/20220112220551/https://www.nytime...

Re: 5 Charged with Stalking, Harassing, Spying on US Residents for PRC Secret Police

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, but source? Australian population in 2016 born in China was ~500k. If you assume that the majority of this was happening within that population, if it's 50k "informants", that would mean it's 1 in every 10 people. If you further limited it to students, it would be even more than that. If this were actually known to be happening at such high frequency, I would expect that Australia would know about it & do somethi…

Chinese government threatens the family members still living in China: https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/this-student-attende... Students doxxed and harassed after protesting https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/aug/04/we-ca... The government doesn't do anything about it because Chinese students are a cash cow and every university in Australia as well as the property market would implode without that…

Couldn't find 50k, or any other number, in this articles.

Re: 5 Charged with Stalking, Harassing, Spying on US Residents for PRC Secret Police

#186
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems very odd that people are downvoting the comment I'm replying to: downvoters - why are you downvoting this? Do you think it's false? Or just don't like hearing about it?

I didn't downvote you, but often people get downvoted because they take the discussion off-topic. It's interesting to you that what the PRC is doing today reminds you of something the FBI did last century. But the discussion is still about the PRC, not the FBI. As you can see, your comment that is benign on the surface started a whole thread of off-topic comments, which bogs down the overall discussion and generates…

> which bogs down the overall discussion and generates more heat than light.

An argument can also be made how it adds context, to properly frame these actions in the reality we live in.

Insisting on looking at this in total isolation, like it's this thing that only happens in that one particular place, completely belittles how and why these practices become established and normalized in the first place.

Because state organized suppression of perceived political dissidence is not unique to China, it has a long history all over the globe and takes many different forms to this day [0].

Recognizing and acknowledging that is a much more fitting approach to Hacker News than going; "This is a submission about China, only talking badly about China allowed in here!", which only results in the same kind of "circle jerk" discussions that already dominate too much of Reddit.

[0] https://theintercept.com/2021/05/25/oracle-social-media-surv...

Re: 5 Charged with Stalking, Harassing, Spying on US Residents for PRC Secret Police

#187
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

North Korea is fascist, but harmlessly so. Despite endless flexing and threat inflation, they haven't actually done much harm since invading the South 70 years ago. The main problem with fascism in Nazi Germany, Zionist Israel, and Banderite Ukraine is that these fascist states have overt policies of ethnic cleansing. IOW the "fascism" part isn't necessarily bad (unless you are a liberal chauvinist), it's the ethnic…

> Banderite Ukraine This is something that... doesn't really exist today? I mean, sure there are still nazis in Ukraine, even in its government and military, but by and large it doesn't seem that they're anywhere near a majority or have significant influence... despite what Putin's propaganda would like us to believe. > IOW the "fascism" part isn't necessarily bad (unless you are a liberal chauvinist) If you truly be…

> If you truly believe that, I don't think you're going to have a productive discussion on this topic here.

Of course; many folks here are ideologically hyper-individualists, liberals, liberal anarchists, libertarians, etc. The idea that various collectivisms including "fascism" are okay is offensive to those ideologies.

However, the onus is not on me to pander to their ideological limitations.

Re: 5 Charged with Stalking, Harassing, Spying on US Residents for PRC Secret Police

#188
post #140
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s pretty easy to look at North Korea, Cambodia, or Eastern Europe during the Cold War and say “hmm, it’s worth going to extreme lengths to prevent this from happening elsewhere”. That may have been misguided in many instances, but the basic motivation is sound. Careful, this is literally Moscow's reason for its invasion of Ukraine -- to prevent the rise of a hostile fascist entity in its frontyard.

Except Ukraine isn't a "hostile fascist entity", and Putin knows that. Ukraine is (well, sadly, was ) in danger of becoming more democratically- and West-aligned, which Putin (irrationally, IMO) feared, but my take on it is that he's really motivated mostly by fallen-empire envy. (Granted, that's just my opinion; I don't know what Putin is actually thinking.)

We're seeing the fascism part of full display as Zelensky refuses to surrender, instead preferring to throw civilian bodies to the altar in sacrifice of the Nation. Imagine cheering on Saddam Hussein as he hopelessly hung onto power and sacrificed thousands of innocents. This is precisely what the Western establishment media is doing right now, modulo Zelensky, because he's the "good guy".

The hostile part has been obvious for 8 years, and escalated last year. 14,000 dead, war declared on Russian Crimea last year, etc.

Re: 5 Charged with Stalking, Harassing, Spying on US Residents for PRC Secret Police

#190

Sometimes I think this sounds conspiratorial, and surely isn't happening. Who has the time or money to pay 5 people to just go around harassing and stalking people for political gain only? Then I remember the story of the lady in East Germany who, after it fell, managed to get the Stasi records that finally proved that yes, they had been stalking her, harassing her, and spying on her. They would do things like wait u…

Even corporations do this kind of thing, not just state agents. There was an interesting case where Ebay harassed two old couple for running a blog that was critical of Ebay practices. Ebay went so far as to cause long-term psychological damage to the couple by mailing them bloody pig masks, signing them up to naughty magazines and sending them to their neighbors, van stalking them, and all other kinds of crazy stuff…

> Wenig texted Wymer weeks later: "Take her down."

> The CEO Wenig's messages were deemed "inappropriate" by eBay, but eBay's internal investigation concluded that the CEO did not know about the stalking and harassment activities.[5] Wenig left eBay in September 2019, with a US$57 million severance package.[5] After the harassment scandal became news, Wenig was re-elected to the board of General Motors.[5]

So essentially he got off Scott free due to plausible deniability then threw the people he told to do the deed under the bus. Then got a 50+ million dollar payday and a board position at General motors.

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