Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

251–260 of 735 posts

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#251

Post by ricardobeat »

coeneedell wrote: post #232
zarzavat wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread.

Are you trying to say that there's something inherent to the Jewish population that they're less likely to marry a non-Jewish person than a Muslim is to marry a non-Muslim?

An arab israeli is very likely to marry an arab from Palestine. I'm guessing a number close to zero Israeli Jews are looking to marry an arab from Palestine (religion, hate, etc).

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#252

Post by solarhoma »

solarhoma wrote: post #202
pthread_t wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If Israel was an ally "Israel Passes U.S. Military Technology to China" [1] "a 2013 National Intelligence Estimate on cyber threats “ranked Israel the third most aggressive intelligence service against the US” behind only China and Russia" [2] "Israel among the U.S.’s most threatening cyber-adversaries and as a “hostile” foreign intelligence service." [3] "Israel’s snooping upset White House because information was…

These are enlightening links. Incredible really. How a so called ally can perform such levels of espionage and the US has a hand in paying for their own ‘downfall’. I suppose the only reason Israel gets away with it is due to the influence Israel has on politicians with AIPAC/lobbying efforts.

Danuker - HN is not allowing me to reply to you directly.

Though, I do disagree with spying on allies. There is a history with Germany that may have given credence to the wiretapping.

With that said, the US is not giving Israel weapons to China. But, Israel has given US tech to China (and likely will again).

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#253

Post by estaseuropano »

dotancohen wrote: post #234
detaro wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Legally recognized multiple wives? Because according to the sources I can find, that has been illegal for decades, regardless of religion.

I don't know about internet sources or laws, but in general Arab affairs are left up to the Arabs. I just took a look through my telephone and at least four people in my address book have multiple wives. These are people that I know well enough to have in my address book. Two of them I'd call personal friends, one is an electrician, and another I buy my gas from. I could probably find more in there, and I certainly k…

This is still not answering the question whether these are legally recognized wives; whether they have residenve./nationality rights, right to work, etc

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#254

Post by scott_s »

coeneedell wrote: post #232
zarzavat wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread.

Are you trying to say that there's something inherent to the Jewish population that they're less likely to marry a non-Jewish person than a Muslim is to marry a non-Muslim?

No. They're saying that a Jewish Israeli citizen is less likely to marry a Palestinian than a Muslim Israeli citizen. And given public statements from the lawmakers advocating for this law, they agree.

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#255

Post by jpgvm »

tablespoon wrote: post #248
mmaunder wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is correct. I grew up under apartheid. This phrase is key: “ Proponents say the law helps ensure Israel's security and maintains its "Jewish character".” Consider if the US passed a law banning Mexican spouses from uniting with their US spouse to keep America’s “Christian character”.

> Consider if the US passed a law banning Mexican spouses from uniting with their US spouse to keep America’s “Christian character”. That's not a very good analogy, because Mexico is probably more Christian than the US.

In this context Christian almost always means white even if they try to pretend that isn't the case. At least Australia didn't mince words and called it the White Australia Policy, everyone else feels like they need to make it about religon or something else to make the racism more palatable.

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#257

Post by dqpb »

causi wrote: post #22
emptyparadise wrote: post #5

>Proponents say the law helps ensure Israel's security and maintains its "Jewish character". What the fuck?

Israel has always been the ethno-state white nationalists dream of, just centered on the wrong race.

According to this article[1], it’s not so rosy:

“another real problem remains unresolved in Israel: The visceral hatred and contempt that many “Ashkenazi” or European-origin Israelis have for “Mizrahi” Jews, and the way that the media exacerbates racial stereotypes by repeating them without self-critique.”

1. https://www.algemeiner.com/2015/04/15/israel-must-banish-its...

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#258

Post by estaseuropano »

mschuster91 wrote: post #175
simiones wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That language is an explicit part of Israel - the Declaration of Independence enshrines the idea that Israel is, first and foremost, a Jewish state. In more recent times, the nature of the state is often referred to as "Jewish and democratic". It is also enshrined in the basic laws of Israel (Israel doesn't have a constitution). This entire concept has a dedicated article on Wikipedia [0]. It's a pretty fun read for…

> This is, in my opinion, the main reason why Israel has never attempted to annex the Palestinian territories. The Arab majority (or near majority today) that would form in the population would seriously challenge the idea of a Jewish and democratic state - they would be forced to stop recognizing Arabs' right to vote and/or hold office. For what it's worth Israel could go the federation route - basically, have three…

Or they could do the obvious, which is to let the Palestinians form a full state within the internationally recognized borders. But Israel does not want to respect those borders so does not want to accept a two (or three) state solution with a Palestinian state.

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#259

Post by thatsmyfribble »

First of all, this isn't a ban on Israeli-Palestinian marriage, this is a restriction on the ability to gain citizenship through those marriages. I don't agree with that, but I do think it's important to clarify.

Regarding comments I'm seeing here saying Israel is an apartheid state or that Israel is racist or that Israel the concept of a Jewish state is disgusting:

Israel is the size of New Jersey. It is the only state on earth there is a Jewish majority. There are many places on earth where there is a Christian majority, and there are many places on earth where there is a Muslim majority.

The Jewish people represent a tiny percent of the world's population in part because they have been expelled from their homes throughout history, and the majority of them were killed in the 1940s.

Why does it matter to have a Jewish state? Because it is a measure of defense against what has happened countless times throughout history.

The problem with a Jewish state in Israel:

Obviously, Israel, and especially Jerusalem, is a holy state for multiple groups. Those groups have a justifiable interest in living in Israel and enjoying the same rights as Israeli citizens. The issue is that if citizenship is freely given, Jews become the minority in Israel and it is no longer a Jewish state.

If you say "Good," to that, that is your opinion, and I will add that there are Jewish Israelis who agree with you. There is debate in Israel and abroad whether Israel should be a Jewish state of a state of the Jews. In the latter, there is more room for Palestinians--as it stands, this is not the policy of the current coalition.

Israel was not built by its founders to be a melting pot, it was built as a home for displaced Jewish people. It was not built to be a place of equality, and unfortunately, by its nature it cannot be one and continue to serve its purpose. If you think that purpose is racist, you are entitled to that opinion, but there are many who believe what Jews have faced throughout history justify a Jewish homeland, and it is very difficult to have a Jewish homeland, at least in Israel, without maintaining a Jewish majority.

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#260

Post by unmole »

sarchertech wrote: post #154
irrational wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is so annoying. It’s not rocket science to understand that Arabic is a language and you are only an Arab if your cultural language is Arabic. Not all Arabs are Muslims and not all Muslims are Arabs. It’s like saying that all who speak English are Christians. And all who are Christians speak English.

There are also many Arabic speaking Christians who don’t consider themselves to be Arabs culturally, and who definitely reject the label “Arab”.

What do they call themselves?
Post reply on HN