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Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

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441–450 of 1001 posts

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#441
post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You must be insane to believe that. Would saying Gdańsk will be neutral and Germany can transport troops between East Prussia and rest of country stop Hitler? No, those are just pretexts. He'd just go further and further and attack while you'd be way way worse position.

Hitler didnt sit publicly on a border with troops threatening to invade for 3 months with one single demand. Putin isnt Hitler. He's a monster hes just not that specific monster.

Oh, but he did. And when he got it, then he moved to other country with other demand.

Do you really believe this would end at Ukraine?

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm trying to understand the scale of Putin's decision Drastic. Catastrophic. Suicidal. World-changing. The country (Russia) in its current form has just ceased to exist. The entire parasitic elite class just got cut off from everything they stole during all these years. The entire human potential of Russia just got nullified for at lest 20 years. The push towards green energy (and I hope nuclear fusion) just got a…

If Ukraine survives and the war ends in peace, I sincerely wish for a version of some kind of Marshall plan for Russia. Unfortunately, given the current state of world politics, I am afraid we will instead get a new version of Treaty of Versailles. In which case you will be right.

Russia has tarnished its international standing. It will require a dramatic change in Russian politics, as well a regime change there. Otherwise, the other governments cannot justify to their citizens why taxpayer money should be spent reconstructing a country which threatened nuclear war.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#443
post #11

As a side question, how similar is Putin's war in Ukraine to the numerous wars started by U.S. (say, in the middle East, Yugoslavia)? Are these fair to compare? I'm trying to understand the scale of Putin's decision, not to justify it or engage in whataboutism.

Yugoslavia is the case here that isn't like the others. After the fall of yugoslavia, certain ethnic groups went back to ethnic cleansing. Important to note, the time for Yugoslavia up to that point is probably one of the longest periods where ethnic wars/cleansing didn't take place. Essentially, Tito put a stop to quiet a bit of it. When Yugoslavia disintegrated, ethnic cleansing came back. Long history of it there.…

This is so false that I don't know where to begin. Maybe it's best at the end, when in 2004 after all the wars, when UN and NATO troops were actually stationed there, a pogrom of a minority happened just because the majority heard a rumour that they killed some children somewhere bin the country.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#444

This anti-Russian trope spreading is infuriating. If Apple and Google can stop their Pay services, of course everything else will be stopped. But that also means I don't want to be on those services either. It is too much power to give to Amazon, Microsoft and Google. I will actively move my own services to solutions that don't act like arms of the US government.

I'm not sure I get it: are you saying you do not believe the international community should hold Russia accountable for its murderous incomprehensible actions in Europe?

The problem with this is that it only gets applied against the enemies of USA and never to USA and friends.

Not to Saudi Arabia, not to USA/UK/France, not to Israel.

Libya, Yemen, Syria, Lebanon, Armenia, etc are not worthy victims (see manufacturing consent).

The war fervor and demand for generating damage against "the others" is at an all time high and is very clearly propaganda.

There's no context (2014 to now, interesting things have been happening in Ukraine) nor desire for peace. It's full on white Vs black and calls for action, not diplomacy.

Those of us who have been following Geopolitcs for a while and remember Iraq and others... Will be way more skeptic than to buy a simplified narrative of us Vs "terrible them".

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#445
post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think that talking to Hitler is going to stop a war?

Saying "Ukraine will remain neutral and will not join NATO" would have stopped this war. It's an unpopular fact but it's still true.

No-one seriously believed Ukraine was going to join NATO, it wasn't even on the cards. This is just a false excuse trumped up by Putin's apologists.

Listen to what he says: he claims Ukraine is a fake state and that it is really part of Russia. In 2005 he claimed that the collapse of the USSR was a geopolitical tragedy and a further tragedy because it meant that many "fellow citizens" were now outside of Russia's borders. I.e. Putin wants to re-establish Muscovite control over vast swathes of territory he believes are Russia's right to control.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#446

I am in Ukraine right now. In a small village to the north of Kyiv. I am the author of PhotoSwipe ( https://github.com/dimsemenov/photoswipe ). Yesterday I was filling bags with sand to make a fortification for local defenders. I hear artillery as I am writing this. And by the way, you get used to it. In the last few days I received about 20 emails offering support, none of them were from russian devs. One asked a te…

Russian here. This is not misinformation or anything. This is just because yes, vast majority of Russians from all walks of life are pure evil. Even those living in the Western countries for decades. I have deleted myself from all social networks 5 years ago and people keep sending me screenshots from Russian facebook groups in Cyprus and that makes me freak out. Nearly everyone is pro-Putin. Ridiculous posts get hun…

On the one hand, instinctively, calling such a large group of people evil feels wrong, it's painting with too broad a brush.

On the other hand, I know where you're coming from. I grew up in NYC feeling pretty much American, but my family is Russian and I speak the language. Over years of encounters with my own extended family and the social network around them, I've struggled to not overgeneralize, to keep context in mind, and to remain open.

But it's hard when you repeatedly encounter so many deeply cynical, bigoted, punitive, and hatefully-normative personalities. I'm hardly a counter-cultural outlier, but I do deviate from the suburban right-wing-materialist worldview that this particular Russian community prefers, so I may as well be from Mars. For that I was told to my face, multiple times, that I'm not normal ("not normal" is the exact phrasing they use) - and because of that I deserve and should accept the criticism and abuse coming my way. And it just keeps coming - casual racism that's basically accepted wisdom and notably bloodthirsty (nuke em all and don't look back!). Then, habitual low-level fraud that no one even recognizes as such (you should really file for divorce! then you can do (a) and (b) and get this [social benefit!]), the elevation of hustle and cunning above all other forms of intelligence, and smug superiority when it comes to political and ethical questions.

The war is some kind of last straw for me. Now, I hear a group of people speaking Russian, I feel an instinctive revulsion. It's not good, but it is what it is.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I get it: are you saying you do not believe the international community should hold Russia accountable for its murderous incomprehensible actions in Europe?

They aren't holding Russia accountable, they holding Russians accountable and that seems like a terrible thing.

I haven't paid attention to what Google, Amazon, etc. are doing, nor do I particularly care.

NATO, EU, Switzerland and a few others are not trying to hold Russians accountable. They are trying to hit the Russian economy strong and hard to demonstrate that Putin's Russia cannot afford a war against the West. That's after Putin and his representatives articulated several times and in no uncertain terms the threat of a nuclear attack against the West.

Are people going to suffer for it? Absolutely. That's the definition of a war, even if it the West has chosen to use money to wage it, rather than deploying soldiers.

Is it worth it? Time will tell, I suppose.

All I can tell you is that in the past week, I have spent time role-playing/strategizing the entire situation with friends (that's how I evacuate stress, YMMV) and, based on the information I have at hand, I would have done the same if I was playing the West.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"We" tried talking, "we" didn't do the warmongering, where is that coming from? Granted, the US did a lot of warmongering in the middle east; I get that they wanted to retaliate after 9/11, but instead of rooting out the ones responsible directly they made up a motive (WOMD in Iraq) and did a full scale invasion there; I'm not saying Iraq was a pleasant, peaceful country or that Hussein was a nice guy, but the US inv…

European countries were pretty heavily involved in the NATO bombing of Serbia. You can debate the justification, but it's certainly not "live and let live".

[flagged]

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#449
post #11

As a side question, how similar is Putin's war in Ukraine to the numerous wars started by U.S. (say, in the middle East, Yugoslavia)? Are these fair to compare? I'm trying to understand the scale of Putin's decision, not to justify it or engage in whataboutism.

Well, intervention in Yugoslavia wasn’t a war started by the US. The Kuwait war was after an invasion by Iraq and at the invitation of the government there, and the US were restrained enough to halt at the Iraq border. The Syrian war was not started by the US, and it has played a minor part there. In fact, it is Russia that has indiscriminately bombed Syrian cities and targeted civilians and hospitals there. Afghanis…

Yemen?
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