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Soybean oil affects hypothalamus, causes genetic changes in mice: study (2020)

universityofcalifornia.edu

251–260 of 464 posts

Re: Soybean oil affects hypothalamus, causes genetic changes in mice: study (2020)

#251

> The same UC Riverside research team found in 2015 that soybean oil induces obesity, diabetes, insulin resistance, and fatty liver in mice. Then in a 2017 study, the same group learned that if soybean oil is engineered to be low in linoleic acid, it induces less obesity and insulin resistance. > “The hypothalamus regulates body weight via your metabolism, maintains body temperature, is critical for reproduction and…

this is the 2nd time in a week I've seen Fire In A Bottle linked on HN.

It's good to see it. This guy is so ahead of the curve.

Re: Soybean oil affects hypothalamus, causes genetic changes in mice: study (2020)

#252
post #165

Taking account that this is unproven in humans -- it's enough for me to avoid soybean oil, as cooking oil choice is not very important for my palate. That said, which oils would you use for frying and baking? Most high smoke point oils are, like soybean, polyunsaturated, so I'd guess that they could have some of the same (proposed) negative effects. Bonus points if the alternative is widely available (I see potential…

Avocado oil is fantastic for high-temperature cooking (smoke point ~500F). "Pure" or "refined" olive oil has a smoke point of around 410F; it's EVOO that has the lower smoke point. Deep frying happens at ~375F. Coconut and MCT oils are great for baking, but they do have lower smoke points (320-350F) so they're inappropriate for frying. I generally prefer cooking, frying, and baking with avocado oil, both because of i…

Just be careful when you buy Avocado oil, a recent study showed that 82% of the Avocado oil on shelves is either mixed or rancid:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S095671352...

Chosen Foods and Marianne’s Avocado Oil are the only two that are 100% pure refined avocado oil.

Re: Soybean oil affects hypothalamus, causes genetic changes in mice: study (2020)

#253
post #107

What is soybean oil traditionally called in the US? I've never actually seen "soybean oil" myself (though it surely exists). Is this the same as "vegetable oil"?

I was at Target in the sauce aisle and I couldn't believe how literally every sauce I picked up had Soybean oil as the first ingredient.

Ran into that problem yesterday at the grocery store. I wanted to buy horseradish sauce but every single product offered had soybean oil as a primary ingredient, often the first ingredient. Thankfully horseradish root can still be obtained for making sauce at home.

Re: Soybean oil affects hypothalamus, causes genetic changes in mice: study (2020)

#254
Over the last 3 decades I've had the experience of working on and off in the restaurant industry so I've been able to observe what happens to my body and which type of health issues seemed to always disappear when I'm not working in a kitchen versus when I am, and I have narrowed it down to only the kitchens where there was soybean oil in the fryer that correlated with extreme sinus issues.

Re: Soybean oil affects hypothalamus, causes genetic changes in mice: study (2020)

#256
Do not take this work seriously unless you are a male inbred mouse of the C57BL/6N persuasion.

This is a classic N=1 study of one sex and one genome of mouse. As such this work is of almost no know relevance to other strains of mice, let alone to humanity.

If you want an example of how mice dietary studies should be done then look to the National Institute on Aging and its Interventions Testing Program. They use both sexes and mice that are as genetically diverse as humanity.

N-of-1 studies should be deprecated by journals and by NIH. Embrace diversity before making broad translational claims.

Re: Soybean oil affects hypothalamus, causes genetic changes in mice: study (2020)

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the study: > One additional note on this study — the research team has not yet isolated which chemicals in the oil are responsible for the changes they found in the hypothalamus. But they have ruled out two candidates. It is not linoleic acid, since the modified oil also produced genetic disruptions; nor is it stigmasterol, a cholesterol-like chemical found naturally in soybean oil. 1. We're not mammals that exp…

There are some interesting coincidences that make me think that the torpor hypothesis might be worth exploring: - Basal metabolic rates in present-day Americans are substantially lower than they were in the past ( http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:nqBxKGn... -- Yes, the link is from the aforementioned blog, but you can check the citations). - Mean body temperatures today are lower than in the past…

Obesity is the consequence of growth seeking in the food production and distribution industry.

Market pressures ended up selecting a diet made of poisonous food that lies to your tastebuds and satiety center.

Re: Soybean oil affects hypothalamus, causes genetic changes in mice: study (2020)

#258
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you elaborate on that? It doesn't surprise we that "genetic changes" is used sensationally, just would like to know what is actually happening and whether it's uncommon or something pretty normal?

In the simplest terms: Gene expression constantly changes. It's a field known as epigenetics. You have tons of genes, not all of which are constantly active. You have histones in your DNA that allow certain portions to be read while others are locked away. This changes how your genes activate.

Gene expression >>> epigenetic changes.

Epigenetics is just one of the mechanisms that regulate gene expression in some organisms, but there are many many more mechanisms at play. All cells of a given cell type don't express the same genes at the same level, or even maintain the same expression profile from hour to hour.

Re: Soybean oil affects hypothalamus, causes genetic changes in mice: study (2020)

#259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ALA is alpha-linolenic acid (the essential omega-3 fatty acid). LA is linoleic acid (the essential omega-6 fatty acid). They are the "raw materials" of the Arachidonic Acid Cascade.

So does this mean they should have similar effects on the body or that they are different enough to be essentially just two different fats that are significantly different enough not to draw conclusions that ALA causes the same (potential) effects as LA as brought forth in the article?

They're both polyunsaturated fats. While an over-simplification Omega3s (which ALA is) tend to be anti-inflammatory and have tons of positive effects of cardiovascular health (up to a point - more on this later) while Omega6s, which are necessary for our survival, do tend to have an inflammatory effect.

The goal is to be high-ish in Omega3s without getting mercury poisoning and low in Omega6s.

The modern diet - so if you go out to eat at all, if you cook with corn/canola/soybean/cottonseed oils or shortenings like Criso, if you use 90% of most modern pre-made marinades, salad dressings, cereals, chips, crackers, cookies, and even most bread (not including some brands of butter bread), they all load up on "seed oils" (Meaning LA).

When people say a good diet is rich in whole foods and low in processed foods - this is what is at the heart of it. Processed foods tend to be high in omega6s, high in sugar, and high in sodium,. The latter 2 are largely for taste, or in salt's case taste and preservation.

Omega6s are used b/c the oils are super cheap. These are oils that couldn't exist without modern industry, in the bulk in which we produce them. (unlike say..beef tallow, coconut oil, butter, olive oil, ghee, duck fat, etc.) And initially they were sold by non-food industries as a way to maximize profits on byproducts from other industrial processes.

They have incredibly high smoke points and they don't go rancid or spoil, so if you want to make say... Cheeze-Its or Pringles, it's a perfect choice for production - it's cheap, it's stable, it doesn't burn easily, it doesn't spoil, etc..

What's worse is we've radically changed what we feed animals too - chickens, pigs, cows, and now all of the meat we eat also has a much higher omega6 profile than it ever did before these seedoils came along or "corn" became the staple of our lives from ethanol to chicken feed.

Foods high in Omega3s tend to be fatty fish, the low mercury types would be salmon and sardines, mostly. Tuna is good too but higher in mercury. and you'll want to eat the wild versions of these b/c at least in Salmon's case it also contains an antioxidant called Astaxanthin, which is an amazing anti-oxidant. Salmon get this from eating Krill (Krill get it from eating algae - and it's why krill and salmon are red/pink).

Unlike most anti-oxidants, Astaxanthin doesn't flip to being pro-oxidant under any circumstances and it, particularly, prevents Poly-Unsaturated Fats from Oxidizing. Which is really important since they oxidize so easily ( this is why Omega3 based oils, for example, aren't good cooking oils).

Fish are high in EPA and DHA, which are forms of Omega3. ALA is the type found in flax or papaya or some other sources. I'd mention chia seeds but being as they're higher in oxylates than spinach, i reject them as a health food. ALA is a poor Omega3. Your body can't use it directly and it must be converted into EPA and DHA and it's done so at a really poor conversion rate. Something like only 5-10% of the Omega3s in ALA form ever get converted to a form that your body can use.

And while there's 1000s of blogs and videos going on about the benefits of Omega3s, which there are many, let me also give warning that high doses of EPA (pure EPA at 4-7g) given to patients in a clinical trial, for years, gave them heart arrhythmias. While no fun, the main cause of death from heart arrhythmias is stroke, and funny enough, Omega3s lessen the risk of death from stroke. So you'd get a heart arrhythmias but still be less likely to die from it. The lesson here, though, is the poison is in the dose.

The more you read Fire in a Bottle (blog linked in first comment), you'll notice that the human body really isn't meant to process mass amounts of PUFAs at all.

This is a fantastic talk on Omega3s:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-f-CFQxaUY4

I have weaponized my health anxiety, so subscribe if you'd like to know more.

Re: Soybean oil affects hypothalamus, causes genetic changes in mice: study (2020)

#260
post #55

Interestingly enough, soybean oil is virtually non-existent over here in Germany - at least not as oil that you can buy (here the dominant ones are canola, good ol' sunflower and olive - the latter not for frying though), and I also haven't heard of it as an ingredient in industrial foods, but I wouldn't vouch for that.

> at least not as oil that you can buy It's not a common oil you find on the shelves of a grocery store, even in the US. It is, however, a prominent ingredient in a lot of bottled sauces and dressings. You can find it on the ingredients list of most salad dressing and sauces.

Virtually all "vegetable oil" you see in stores in the US is soybean oil.
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