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Soybean oil affects hypothalamus, causes genetic changes in mice: study (2020)

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Re: Soybean oil affects hypothalamus, causes genetic changes in mice: study (2020)

#241

Post by pilingual »

jelliclesfarm wrote: post #162

The three oils/fat I have been taught to use in my Indian kitchen are: sesame seed oil, ghee and coconut oil. Sesame seed oil because it has a high smoke point. Ditto with ghee. The choice of oils always has to do with smoke point and hence what we use it for in the kitchen. [..] Sesame oil is full of antioxidants. Along with vitamin E and phytosterols, it contains lignans, sesamol, and sesaminol. These compounds hel…

"Sesame oil has a balanced ratio of omega-3, omega-6"

This is not true.

Re: Soybean oil affects hypothalamus, causes genetic changes in mice: study (2020)

#242

Post by admn2 »

ska wrote: post #149
admn2 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was at Target in the sauce aisle and I couldn't believe how literally every sauce I picked up had Soybean oil as the first ingredient.

What is surprising about that? They use what's cheapest.

Yeah, more just surprised that Soybean specifically so ubiquitous. Felt like last time I looked it was a range of weird oil name (corn oil, sunflower oil, canola oil, etc.) Just astonishing how the huge CPG conglomerates have engineered such highly processed food all in the name of price efficiency. I love brands like Primal Kitchen and how many others like it gain popularity as they're one of the few brands whose ingredients are just normal and easily identifiable.

Re: Soybean oil affects hypothalamus, causes genetic changes in mice: study (2020)

#243

Post by sarma912 »

pigeonhole123 wrote: post #101
mrob wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>ghee Cholesterol oxides in Indian ghee: possible cause of unexplained high risk of atherosclerosis in Indian immigrant populations: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2887943/ "Substantial amounts of cholesterol oxides were found in ghee (12.3% of sterols), but not in fresh butter"

There are thousands of possible explanations. Indians may just tolerate the western lifestyle worse than westerners do. This study seems to look at a single chemical compound that is suspected of some connection with atherosclerosis, which is pretty thin.

In Grad school (and as someone who had no idea about the western diet or macros for that matter at the time), pizza everyday seemed like a low cost option. I got fat. I've spent the last 5 year undoing all that damage.

Re: Soybean oil affects hypothalamus, causes genetic changes in mice: study (2020)

#244

Post by mpalczewski »

Salgat wrote: post #221
simonsarris wrote: post #4

> The same UC Riverside research team found in 2015 that soybean oil induces obesity, diabetes, insulin resistance, and fatty liver in mice. Then in a 2017 study, the same group learned that if soybean oil is engineered to be low in linoleic acid, it induces less obesity and insulin resistance. > “The hypothalamus regulates body weight via your metabolism, maintains body temperature, is critical for reproduction and…

To note, even eggs and lard have large amounts of Linoleic acid, and I'm pretty sure lard and eggs have existed in the human diet for as long as chickens and pigs as livestock have existed.

I somewhat agree that the fear of linloeic acid doesn't always match facts. I do tend to avoid seed oils as they are relatively new and their health effects are rather suspect.

However, in this case, the eggs and lard that existed in the human diet for a long time, are not the same. The chickens and pigs are eating a different diet and this does effect the composition of the fatty acids present in the flesh/eggs.

Re: Soybean oil affects hypothalamus, causes genetic changes in mice: study (2020)

#245

Post by [deleted] »

simonsarris wrote: post #4

> The same UC Riverside research team found in 2015 that soybean oil induces obesity, diabetes, insulin resistance, and fatty liver in mice. Then in a 2017 study, the same group learned that if soybean oil is engineered to be low in linoleic acid, it induces less obesity and insulin resistance. > “The hypothalamus regulates body weight via your metabolism, maintains body temperature, is critical for reproduction and…

[deleted]

Re: Soybean oil affects hypothalamus, causes genetic changes in mice: study (2020)

#246

Post by ch4s3 »

netmonk wrote: post #239
crowbahr wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the study: > One additional note on this study — the research team has not yet isolated which chemicals in the oil are responsible for the changes they found in the hypothalamus. But they have ruled out two candidates. It is not linoleic acid, since the modified oil also produced genetic disruptions; nor is it stigmasterol, a cholesterol-like chemical found naturally in soybean oil. 1. We're not mammals that exp…

For 1 i would suggest the read of this wonderfull blog https://fireinabottle.net/ https://twitter.com/fire_bottle

While he has a science background, he's definitely selling something. Drawing a straight line for evolutionary ancestors with a gene to modern humans and not showing that we have the same gene is a non-starter. Even if we have it, it could have changed in expression and function such that we are not capable of torpor.

We know from animal research that torpor/hibernation in non-human mammals creates a sleep deprived state. We know that there is no evidence of humans being able to enter a state of torpor. We know that humans have high sleep requirements for our brain function. It stands to reason that humans distant ancestors lost the ability to hibernate at some point and that it wouldn't work with our physiology.

Re: Soybean oil affects hypothalamus, causes genetic changes in mice: study (2020)

#247

Post by ska »

admn2 wrote: post #242
ska wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is surprising about that? They use what's cheapest.

Yeah, more just surprised that Soybean specifically so ubiquitous. Felt like last time I looked it was a range of weird oil name (corn oil, sunflower oil, canola oil, etc.) Just astonishing how the huge CPG conglomerates have engineered such highly processed food all in the name of price efficiency. I love brands like Primal Kitchen and how many others like it gain popularity as they're one of the few brands whose in…

US produces about 1/3 of worldwide soy, I think production is only second to corn. So if nothing else, it's available.

Re: Soybean oil affects hypothalamus, causes genetic changes in mice: study (2020)

#248

Post by frankus »

crowbahr wrote: post #69
simonsarris wrote: post #4

> The same UC Riverside research team found in 2015 that soybean oil induces obesity, diabetes, insulin resistance, and fatty liver in mice. Then in a 2017 study, the same group learned that if soybean oil is engineered to be low in linoleic acid, it induces less obesity and insulin resistance. > “The hypothalamus regulates body weight via your metabolism, maintains body temperature, is critical for reproduction and…

From the study: > One additional note on this study — the research team has not yet isolated which chemicals in the oil are responsible for the changes they found in the hypothalamus. But they have ruled out two candidates. It is not linoleic acid, since the modified oil also produced genetic disruptions; nor is it stigmasterol, a cholesterol-like chemical found naturally in soybean oil. 1. We're not mammals that exp…

There are some interesting coincidences that make me think that the torpor hypothesis might be worth exploring:

- Basal metabolic rates in present-day Americans are substantially lower than they were in the past (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:nqBxKGn... -- Yes, the link is from the aforementioned blog, but you can check the citations).

- Mean body temperatures today are lower than in the past (https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2020/1/22/21075218/no...).

- 13.2% of Americans have taken an SSRI in the past 30 days (https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db377.htm). To be clear, depression and torpor are different conditions, but it seems reasonable that a torpid-like state might include depression-like symptoms, and that those might be treatable with SSRIs.

- Obesity has absolutely exploded in the past 40 years, and none of the prevailing hypotheses have much explanatory power (https://slimemoldtimemold.com/2021/07/07/a-chemical-hunger-p...).

Re: Soybean oil affects hypothalamus, causes genetic changes in mice: study (2020)

#249

Post by bduerst »

telchior wrote: post #44

Taking account that this is unproven in humans -- it's enough for me to avoid soybean oil, as cooking oil choice is not very important for my palate. That said, which oils would you use for frying and baking? Most high smoke point oils are, like soybean, polyunsaturated, so I'd guess that they could have some of the same (proposed) negative effects. Bonus points if the alternative is widely available (I see potential…

>which oils would you use for frying and baking?

Grapeseed oil is my go to.

It's fairly neutral in flavor (slight nuttiness), has high smoke point, and is one that is a source of Vitamin E.

For frying and then roasting, I use avocado oil, but keep in mind that many avocado oil bought on the shelves are already oxidized or rancid. There's a handful of brands that tested to be pure, one being Chosen Foods (that I use).

Previous HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30105062

Re: Soybean oil affects hypothalamus, causes genetic changes in mice: study (2020)

#250

Post by valarauko »

sinyug wrote: post #193
GordonS wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Indians in India have skyrocketing diabetes and obesity numbers in recent decades About a decade ago, my Indian colleagues told me that Indians had been encouraged to switch away from ghee, based on health concerns. I forget which oil most moved to, but I think it was palm, vegetable or sunflower oil. In addition, they said consumption of refined sugar had skyrocketed , where palm sugar had previously been used. Gh…

> I wonder if it's these ghee alternatives and refined sugar are the main causes of increased diabetes and obesity. This is the most likely cause. People in India are consuming way more sugar, refined flours and seed oils than they used to three decades back. That is when all these colas/biscuits/chocolates/chips/pizzas and oils started being advertised heavily on television.[1] [1] Sundrop super-refined sunflower oi…

People in India are consuming way more of everything, including ghee, than they did three decades ago. Ghee was a luxury then and carefully portioned out. Growing up I ate a lot more Dalda than ghee, simply as a matter of what we could afford. Traditionally ghee was even more of a luxury than in my time. Outside the traditional cowbelt areas, ghee was substantially more expensive relative to other goods prior to Operation Flood. So while Indians have been eating ghee for millennia, they probably ate a tiny fraction of how much we eat it now.
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