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Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

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Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#81

Post by guerrilla »

manquer wrote: post #36
porcoda wrote: post #4

This is why I still buy music I like - either physical media, or DRM-free files I can archive away. It's more expensive and labor intensive to manage, but at least I don't have to worry about my music ever vanishing for one reason or another. Things like Spotify are useful for discovering new stuff, but I sort of like knowing that stuff I like will always be available for me to enjoy regardless of what's going on amo…

Are there good tools which let you manage a catalogue? Either SaaS or self+hosted ? It is hassle to manage your own files on all your devices.I would rather i had app like Spotify but streaming files owned by me.

Personally I'd use Banshee (or iTunes if you prefer) and a NAS, but a lot of people are using Nextcloud which has plugins for this kind of thing.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#82

Post by mulmen »

gonehome wrote: post #60
mulmen wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Young and Mitchell pulling their music is literally freedom of speech (free expression). Neil Young can do whatever he wants with his content (speech), just like Rogan. This is competition in the free marketplace of ideas. You're absolutely entitled to your opinion on these actions and you're free to support Spotify or Young or Mitchell or any combination of the three. But there is no "freedom of speech" side here.

Yeah, for clarity Young and Mitchell are totally within their right to pull their music as an exercise of their speech and I’m fine with that. What I find distasteful is the framing of “Rogan or me” as a way to pressure Spotify to pull Rogan from the platform. Sure Spotify could do that, but they shouldn’t.

Why shouldn't they? Forget the names and the details of this situation for a moment.

Spotify is a business that offers a catalog of content for a fee. Their value proposition is that they provide content people want to consume. Perhaps some content has fallen out of favor for some reason. Could be objectionable or just stale, public opinion is always shifting. If someone with more appealing content comes along and says "you have to get rid of that other thing in order to distribute my content" then how is there some moral choice Spotify has to make? They can do anything they want, and as a business they will probably choose based on what will make them money. This is a proxy for doing the thing that best aligns with their customer's interests. It is impossible for any one organization to satisfy everyone's opinions. This is literally the point of freedom of expression.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#83

Post by unpopular42 »

porcoda wrote: post #4

This is why I still buy music I like - either physical media, or DRM-free files I can archive away. It's more expensive and labor intensive to manage, but at least I don't have to worry about my music ever vanishing for one reason or another. Things like Spotify are useful for discovering new stuff, but I sort of like knowing that stuff I like will always be available for me to enjoy regardless of what's going on amo…

It's not going to help much though. People like that will also try bullying sellers into not selling stuff by someone who says or believes something they don't like. Sure, you can still enjoy what you've already got, but good luck getting anything new from your favourite artist.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#84

Post by systemvoltage »

unfocussed_mike wrote: post #10
olivierestsage wrote: post #2

I'll resist[0] the impulse to make fun of these artists as having an inflated sense of their own importance, and simply join others in noting that this kind of behavior shouldn't be tolerated. It sets a horrible precedent, no matter what one thinks about Joe Rogan. Edit: Too late now to save myself from downvote land, but I just spoke poorly. I meant it shouldn't be tolerated in the form of Spotify acquiescing to the…

You mean in the interests of free speech, artists who you think have an inflated sense of their own importance should necessarily sacrifice their freedom of speech for someone who is parroting dangerous untruths? Pulling their music from Spotify is speech. Why can they _not_ do it? What makes what they are doing a "horrible precedent"?

This needs to be drilled harder: People can express their views until cows come home. Knock yourself out.

But, that's precisely what Young is not doing. He wants to silence (and deny the FoS) Rogan. That is the distinction that keeps being ignored in this thread and elsewhere.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#85

Post by eej71 »

plufz wrote: post #45
eej71 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He certainly has a right to do that. No doubt I wonder if Mr. Young will apply the same moral stringency to the rest of his distributors. I also wonder if his fans are aware of his own unscientific misinformation campaigns in regards to GMO foods. I think most wonder - where does it end? What heterodox positions are tolerated and which ones aren’t? Especially in the context of something like a broad based music distr…

Isn’t this just life/humanity? No one is ever gonna have a 100% scientific correct moral applied equally to all of their life. He is gonna protest some stuff and not other stuff. I’m not really afraid of a slippery slope here. I think the bigger problem is people not taking a real stand in what they believe.

For me there is a cultural question of - what kind of heterodox should be considered normal as part of a broad based distribution service.

For example, there are a number of artists who seem to glorify killing police. Should we consider it normal that big time artist XYZ would feel the need to remove their music from the service? Yes, it would be their right (I don't think anyone disputes that)... but... is that a good cultural trend?

To my eyes, this looks more like tribalistic posturing than some sort of principled stand for something.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#87

Post by mulmen »

School-Cotton wrote: post #63
mulmen wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Young and Mitchell pulling their music is literally freedom of speech (free expression). Neil Young can do whatever he wants with his content (speech), just like Rogan. This is competition in the free marketplace of ideas. You're absolutely entitled to your opinion on these actions and you're free to support Spotify or Young or Mitchell or any combination of the three. But there is no "freedom of speech" side here.

Of course anyone who believes in freedom of speech would agree that Young and Mitchell have the right to pull their music. That doesn’t change the fact that one can disagree with that decision.

> That doesn’t change the fact that one can disagree with that decision.

Obviously, but that's not the topic at hand.

> I were Spotify the move is to take the free speech position

There is no "free speech position". Spotify, Rogan, Young, and Mitchell are all exercising their right to free expression here.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#88

Post by Blackstrat »

guerrilla wrote: post #58
Blackstrat wrote: post #49

It’s hilarious to me to watch the counter-culture heroes of my youth turn into establishment apologists. I suspect it’s the “anything for attention” syndrome.

Apparently both are childhood polio survivors.

Perhaps but there is no parallel between the polio and the COVID vaccine. The former reduced the incidence of polio by more than 99% while the latter, well it does not.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#89

Post by zzzeek »

gonehome wrote: post #26

Based on the recent Stratechery Neil Young advocates against GMOs which is the “anti-science” position on that issue. I think independent of my views on Rogan personally this kind of ultimatum to silence someone is just wrong. The free speech position is the principled one. Spotify wouldn’t be in this position if they weren’t trying to aggregate podcast ownership and ruin the open ecosystem anyway. Still, if I were S…

Neil Young doesn't have a GMO podcast nor any kind of political show on Spotify, nor is opposition to GMO technology an immediate grave threat to public health. Your point is completely irrelevant.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#90

Post by gonehome »

pseudalopex wrote: post #72
gonehome wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, for clarity Young and Mitchell are totally within their right to pull their music as an exercise of their speech and I’m fine with that. What I find distasteful is the framing of “Rogan or me” as a way to pressure Spotify to pull Rogan from the platform. Sure Spotify could do that, but they shouldn’t.

It wasn't an ultimatum. Young directed his management to pull his music and explained why.

"I am doing this because Spotify is spreading fake information about vaccines – potentially causing death to those who believe the disinformation being spread by them ... They can have Rogan or Young. Not both."

I read this as if you want me get rid of him, but I’ll paste it here for clarity. Others may see it differently.

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