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Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

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Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#51

Post by mulmen »

torstenvl wrote: post #37
woodruffw wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who, precisely, is "canceling" (much less "silencing") who in this scenario? As I recall, the Supreme Court has consistently recognized the freedom of association as a core component of free speech. And that seems to be what's happening.

Perhaps you didn't know, but Neil Young tried to get Spotify to deplatform Joe Rogan (i.e., to cancel his Spotify distribution deal), and used his repertoire as an ultimatum. EDIT: I'm being downvoted to oblivion for stating an objective fact. This is unbecoming of HN. I'm out.

Is he not free to do that? I mean you can agree with it or not but how is that not a perfectly valid thing for a private individual to do? I don't have a philosophical objection to this.

Young is saying "I have some number of people who listen to my content and if you want to distribute my content you have to do this thing". Spotify said "no thank you". Where's the problem?

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#52

Post by woodruffw »

grujicd wrote: post #31
woodruffw wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for sharing that article. It's convinced me to cancel my subscription as well.

I like Spotify because it allows me to use smartphone app to control player on PC. Does Tidal or some other service have that kind of remote control? Genuinely asking.

I would also like to know the answer to this question.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#54

Post by alar44 »

"If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him."

Joni and Neil can do whatever they want and I respect that. What bothers me are all of the virtue signalers following them and getting rid of Spotify (or claiming to).

You will not be able to consume anything if you actually care about these standards. Everyone is shitty and people are wrong all the time. Good luck finding a blameless company to buy all your stuff from. Not to mention all of the musicians who have no doubt done bad things and made poor choices.

If you don't like Joe Rogan, don't listen to him. I don't see why people feel the need to fucking ban Spotify.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#55

Post by [deleted] »

sbelskie wrote: post #46
torstenvl wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps you didn't know, but Neil Young tried to get Spotify to deplatform Joe Rogan (i.e., to cancel his Spotify distribution deal), and used his repertoire as an ultimatum. EDIT: I'm being downvoted to oblivion for stating an objective fact. This is unbecoming of HN. I'm out.

Is that not speech?

[deleted]

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#57

Post by lnxg33k1 »

unfocussed_mike wrote: post #10
olivierestsage wrote: post #2

I'll resist[0] the impulse to make fun of these artists as having an inflated sense of their own importance, and simply join others in noting that this kind of behavior shouldn't be tolerated. It sets a horrible precedent, no matter what one thinks about Joe Rogan. Edit: Too late now to save myself from downvote land, but I just spoke poorly. I meant it shouldn't be tolerated in the form of Spotify acquiescing to the…

You mean in the interests of free speech, artists who you think have an inflated sense of their own importance should necessarily sacrifice their freedom of speech for someone who is parroting dangerous untruths? Pulling their music from Spotify is speech. Why can they _not_ do it? What makes what they are doing a "horrible precedent"?

It's a bit of tolerance paradox, in order to protect free speech we should avoid the free speech that want to censor others, otherwise we all lose the right. So of course pulling their music is their right, but it stops being acceptable when they pull their rights in order to prevent others from speaking. I am of the idea that we must tolerate free speech up to the point where this free speech is used to prevent others from speaking, that's the issue in this case

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

-- On the other hand what does this people want? Like I have 3 shots, I have done whatever the government and science asked, I did the first 2 booster and I've listened to the campaign where they said that it would lead us to be open and live again, then we went again in lockdown closed inside (I'm european), despite the vast majority having the vaccines (85%++), Then there was a third shot, now they're talking about the fourth one, meanwhile people still goes to ICU and people is still dying, and still getting infected (100k a day), I want to understand science and politicians, but at this point can we just like following blindly whatever is said and maybe start asking some questions? Can we start having some doubts about effectiveness of meds and/or measures or we just need to keep silent?

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#59

Post by throwawaysea »

mulmen wrote: post #39
gonehome wrote: post #26

Based on the recent Stratechery Neil Young advocates against GMOs which is the “anti-science” position on that issue. I think independent of my views on Rogan personally this kind of ultimatum to silence someone is just wrong. The free speech position is the principled one. Spotify wouldn’t be in this position if they weren’t trying to aggregate podcast ownership and ruin the open ecosystem anyway. Still, if I were S…

Young and Mitchell pulling their music is literally freedom of speech (free expression). Neil Young can do whatever he wants with his content (speech), just like Rogan. This is competition in the free marketplace of ideas. You're absolutely entitled to your opinion on these actions and you're free to support Spotify or Young or Mitchell or any combination of the three. But there is no "freedom of speech" side here.

I view it as a freedom of speech issue because one side is advocating for another side to be silenced. These musicians aren’t just pulling their content - they’re trying to use power to shut someone else down. To me that is clearly a freedom of speech issue.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#60

Post by gonehome »

mulmen wrote: post #39
gonehome wrote: post #26

Based on the recent Stratechery Neil Young advocates against GMOs which is the “anti-science” position on that issue. I think independent of my views on Rogan personally this kind of ultimatum to silence someone is just wrong. The free speech position is the principled one. Spotify wouldn’t be in this position if they weren’t trying to aggregate podcast ownership and ruin the open ecosystem anyway. Still, if I were S…

Young and Mitchell pulling their music is literally freedom of speech (free expression). Neil Young can do whatever he wants with his content (speech), just like Rogan. This is competition in the free marketplace of ideas. You're absolutely entitled to your opinion on these actions and you're free to support Spotify or Young or Mitchell or any combination of the three. But there is no "freedom of speech" side here.

Yeah, for clarity Young and Mitchell are totally within their right to pull their music as an exercise of their speech and I’m fine with that.

What I find distasteful is the framing of “Rogan or me” as a way to pressure Spotify to pull Rogan from the platform.

Sure Spotify could do that, but they shouldn’t.

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