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Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

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Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#71

Post by marstall »

gonehome wrote: post #26

Based on the recent Stratechery Neil Young advocates against GMOs which is the “anti-science” position on that issue. I think independent of my views on Rogan personally this kind of ultimatum to silence someone is just wrong. The free speech position is the principled one. Spotify wouldn’t be in this position if they weren’t trying to aggregate podcast ownership and ruin the open ecosystem anyway. Still, if I were S…

can't tell from your post - are you OK with major platforms publishing vaccine disinformation? Overall is that good for society?

Whether you are or not, is it ok for people to decide to peace out from that platform and move to another one, based on their own beliefs?

Don't see where any silencing is occurring at all.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#72

Post by pseudalopex »

gonehome wrote: post #60
mulmen wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Young and Mitchell pulling their music is literally freedom of speech (free expression). Neil Young can do whatever he wants with his content (speech), just like Rogan. This is competition in the free marketplace of ideas. You're absolutely entitled to your opinion on these actions and you're free to support Spotify or Young or Mitchell or any combination of the three. But there is no "freedom of speech" side here.

Yeah, for clarity Young and Mitchell are totally within their right to pull their music as an exercise of their speech and I’m fine with that. What I find distasteful is the framing of “Rogan or me” as a way to pressure Spotify to pull Rogan from the platform. Sure Spotify could do that, but they shouldn’t.

It wasn't an ultimatum. Young directed his management to pull his music and explained why.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#73

Post by School-Cotton »

kybernetikos wrote: post #33
vnchr wrote: post #25

Quoted post unavailable.

Don't it always seem to go, that you don't know what you got till it's gone?

Spotify subscribers can still enjoy Joe Dassin’s excellent French cover Le grand parking :)

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#74

Post by unfocussed_mike »

xioren00 wrote: post #32
unfocussed_mike wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean in the interests of free speech, artists who you think have an inflated sense of their own importance should necessarily sacrifice their freedom of speech for someone who is parroting dangerous untruths? Pulling their music from Spotify is speech. Why can they _not_ do it? What makes what they are doing a "horrible precedent"?

Yes let them exercise their free speech so they can collectively silence others; You're on to something. And speaking of parroting, I'll agree that much of what joe and by proxy his guests say is dangerous. Where we disagree is whether or not these things are "untrue" and to whom they are dangerous towards.

But it _is_ free speech, isn't it?

There are plenty of examples through history of mass speech overturning things.

And there are plenty of boycotts organised by both left and right wing media the world over.

In the last four or five years, Trump urged boycotts of MLB, Coke, Goodyear, AT&T, Delta, JP Morgan Chase, Viacom, Merck, Cisco the NFL.

Trump _supporters_ (major and minor) have urged boycotts of Meetup, Nike, Nordstrom, Starbucks, Netflix, Pepsi, Nabisco, Anheuser Busch, Amazon, Ben & Jerry's, Apple, Ford, Bank of America... and Tucker Carlson is currently nursing very public hurt feelings about anthropomorphic chocolate CGI characters.

This stuff happens. It's how change of all kinds happens. It shouldn't be surprising if it is aimed at Joe Rogan, since he's so fond of being outspoken.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#75

Post by gonehome »

woodruffw wrote: post #41
gonehome wrote: post #26

Based on the recent Stratechery Neil Young advocates against GMOs which is the “anti-science” position on that issue. I think independent of my views on Rogan personally this kind of ultimatum to silence someone is just wrong. The free speech position is the principled one. Spotify wouldn’t be in this position if they weren’t trying to aggregate podcast ownership and ruin the open ecosystem anyway. Still, if I were S…

My understanding of the GMO debate is that there are two kinds of GMO development: there's GMO for the purposes of making crops themselves hardier, more nutritious, etc., and then there's GMO for the purposes of making crops more resistant to novel pesticides, herbicides, etc. The agricultural industry likes to conflate the two, since the latter is much harder to defend. I have no idea what Neil Young actually believ…

It has to do with speech, that people often hold stupid positions that are not aligned with the truth but we don’t usually demand that they’re silenced. [0]

The GMO case was an example of a position Young may hold that is likely political and wrong. There are many examples across the political spectrum.

[0] I’d argue this is because as a society we understand the risks here with speech restriction leading to less truth on net.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#76

Post by [deleted] »

woodruffw wrote: post #28
tomcat27 wrote: post #18

Joe Rogan is a very good listener and his show is popular for a good reason and that's not political. Silencing this way is just cancel culture.

Who, precisely, is "canceling" (much less "silencing") who in this scenario? As I recall, the Supreme Court has consistently recognized the freedom of association as a core component of free speech. And that seems to be what's happening.

[deleted]

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#77

Post by shepherdjerred »

kennywinker wrote: post #12

I switched to Tidal last year. Spotify is notoriously one of the worst streaming services in terms of what it pays artists, and then there was this: https://themusicessentials.com/news/daniel-ek-e100-million-i... (spotify ceo investing in AI weapons company). While Tidal’s app is a little rough around the edges, and their auto-playlist stuff isn’t quite as smart, it has a solid catalogue and i’m pretty happy with it.

Is it worth getting Tidal if I primarily listen with AirPods? I've heard that Bluetooth decreases audio quality, so that would negate any benefit of the lossless music Tidal provides.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#78

Post by systemvoltage »

mulmen wrote: post #39
gonehome wrote: post #26

Based on the recent Stratechery Neil Young advocates against GMOs which is the “anti-science” position on that issue. I think independent of my views on Rogan personally this kind of ultimatum to silence someone is just wrong. The free speech position is the principled one. Spotify wouldn’t be in this position if they weren’t trying to aggregate podcast ownership and ruin the open ecosystem anyway. Still, if I were S…

Young and Mitchell pulling their music is literally freedom of speech (free expression). Neil Young can do whatever he wants with his content (speech), just like Rogan. This is competition in the free marketplace of ideas. You're absolutely entitled to your opinion on these actions and you're free to support Spotify or Young or Mitchell or any combination of the three. But there is no "freedom of speech" side here.

> Young and Mitchell pulling their music is literally freedom of speech (free expression).

Yes, they can protest. But they can't demand to shut up others (Rogan) which is what they seem to be doing.

Personally, people should double down on their protest, hope others join against Joe Rogan's batshit insane science.

But, I will never stand behind people wanting to deny him the exact rights they're exercising. Young and others are doing exactly that. Isn't it bullying?

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#79

Post by throwawayboise »

tomcat27 wrote: post #66
woodruffw wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who, precisely, is "canceling" (much less "silencing") who in this scenario? As I recall, the Supreme Court has consistently recognized the freedom of association as a core component of free speech. And that seems to be what's happening.

I do not know the nuances of free speech doctrines. I'll take your word. Assume all tech companies de-platform Joe Rogan fearing retribution from other customers He buys a Ubuntu box to host the videos. And now he needs a static IP and a domain name. Are DNS providers considered in association to Joe Rogan's speech if they sell him a domain name? Seems to be true going by the assumption that DNS providers are tech co…

It is not in the spirit of free speech. The internet is the modern printing press. Anyone who can buy, rent, or borrow a printing press to speak his mind should have the right to do so.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#80

Post by unfocussed_mike »

torstenvl wrote: post #48
unfocussed_mike wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Out of touch"? They are both survivors of childhood polio, making a very timely point about vaccinations. [downvoted for this? really?]

Are they childhood survivors of authoritarian governments that turned into oligarchies? Maybe if they had been, they wouldn't be so convinced that rich and famous people should get to decide what ideas other people are exposed to.

In what way are they deciding that?

They are simply deciding that they don't want to share a platform with Joe Rogan. Neil Young made it clear it's an either/or; Spotify went with "or". Their prerogative on both sides.

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