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Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

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Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#31

Post by grujicd »

woodruffw wrote: post #19
kennywinker wrote: post #12

I switched to Tidal last year. Spotify is notoriously one of the worst streaming services in terms of what it pays artists, and then there was this: https://themusicessentials.com/news/daniel-ek-e100-million-i... (spotify ceo investing in AI weapons company). While Tidal’s app is a little rough around the edges, and their auto-playlist stuff isn’t quite as smart, it has a solid catalogue and i’m pretty happy with it.

Thank you for sharing that article. It's convinced me to cancel my subscription as well.

I like Spotify because it allows me to use smartphone app to control player on PC. Does Tidal or some other service have that kind of remote control? Genuinely asking.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#32

Post by xioren00 »

unfocussed_mike wrote: post #10
olivierestsage wrote: post #2

I'll resist[0] the impulse to make fun of these artists as having an inflated sense of their own importance, and simply join others in noting that this kind of behavior shouldn't be tolerated. It sets a horrible precedent, no matter what one thinks about Joe Rogan. Edit: Too late now to save myself from downvote land, but I just spoke poorly. I meant it shouldn't be tolerated in the form of Spotify acquiescing to the…

You mean in the interests of free speech, artists who you think have an inflated sense of their own importance should necessarily sacrifice their freedom of speech for someone who is parroting dangerous untruths? Pulling their music from Spotify is speech. Why can they _not_ do it? What makes what they are doing a "horrible precedent"?

Yes let them exercise their free speech so they can collectively silence others; You're on to something.

And speaking of parroting, I'll agree that much of what joe and by proxy his guests say is dangerous. Where we disagree is whether or not these things are "untrue" and to whom they are dangerous towards.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#34

Post by unfocussed_mike »

olivierestsage wrote: post #21
unfocussed_mike wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean in the interests of free speech, artists who you think have an inflated sense of their own importance should necessarily sacrifice their freedom of speech for someone who is parroting dangerous untruths? Pulling their music from Spotify is speech. Why can they _not_ do it? What makes what they are doing a "horrible precedent"?

I didn't actually mention free speech in my comment, which (although I do passionately believe in it!) I don't consider the main issue here. If a precedent is set for artists being rewarded for demanding that other artists be removed from platforms, where will it end? How will the line be drawn? How much content will the people listening on these platforms be deprived of simply because of rivalries and the like? It d…

In what sense are Mitchell and Young being _rewarded_? They're going to lose some money, right? And they've certainly lost a few Joe Rogan fans.

Both of them simply asserted their right not to share a platform with someone they believe is doing significant harm. They owe him and their (Spotify's) customers nothing in particular.

It'll either work out for them and they'll get what they want, or it won't.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#35

Post by eej71 »

spaceisballer wrote: post #16
olivierestsage wrote: post #2

I'll resist[0] the impulse to make fun of these artists as having an inflated sense of their own importance, and simply join others in noting that this kind of behavior shouldn't be tolerated. It sets a horrible precedent, no matter what one thinks about Joe Rogan. Edit: Too late now to save myself from downvote land, but I just spoke poorly. I meant it shouldn't be tolerated in the form of Spotify acquiescing to the…

Lol. People can’t take a stance? I think it’s well within their right to pull their music for what they believe in.

Of course he can take a stance. And by the same token the rest of us are free to criticize it.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#36

Post by manquer »

porcoda wrote: post #4

This is why I still buy music I like - either physical media, or DRM-free files I can archive away. It's more expensive and labor intensive to manage, but at least I don't have to worry about my music ever vanishing for one reason or another. Things like Spotify are useful for discovering new stuff, but I sort of like knowing that stuff I like will always be available for me to enjoy regardless of what's going on amo…

Are there good tools which let you manage a catalogue? Either SaaS or self+hosted ?

It is hassle to manage your own files on all your devices.I would rather i had app like Spotify but streaming files owned by me.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#37

Post by torstenvl »

woodruffw wrote: post #28
tomcat27 wrote: post #18

Joe Rogan is a very good listener and his show is popular for a good reason and that's not political. Silencing this way is just cancel culture.

Who, precisely, is "canceling" (much less "silencing") who in this scenario? As I recall, the Supreme Court has consistently recognized the freedom of association as a core component of free speech. And that seems to be what's happening.

Perhaps you didn't know, but Neil Young tried to get Spotify to deplatform Joe Rogan (i.e., to cancel his Spotify distribution deal), and used his repertoire as an ultimatum.

EDIT: I'm being downvoted to oblivion for stating an objective fact. This is unbecoming of HN. I'm out.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#38

Post by bklaasen »

porcoda wrote: post #4

This is why I still buy music I like - either physical media, or DRM-free files I can archive away. It's more expensive and labor intensive to manage, but at least I don't have to worry about my music ever vanishing for one reason or another. Things like Spotify are useful for discovering new stuff, but I sort of like knowing that stuff I like will always be available for me to enjoy regardless of what's going on amo…

Likewise. Nextcloud Music and Subtracks. Glorious.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#39

Post by mulmen »

gonehome wrote: post #26

Based on the recent Stratechery Neil Young advocates against GMOs which is the “anti-science” position on that issue. I think independent of my views on Rogan personally this kind of ultimatum to silence someone is just wrong. The free speech position is the principled one. Spotify wouldn’t be in this position if they weren’t trying to aggregate podcast ownership and ruin the open ecosystem anyway. Still, if I were S…

Young and Mitchell pulling their music is literally freedom of speech (free expression). Neil Young can do whatever he wants with his content (speech), just like Rogan. This is competition in the free marketplace of ideas.

You're absolutely entitled to your opinion on these actions and you're free to support Spotify or Young or Mitchell or any combination of the three. But there is no "freedom of speech" side here.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#40

Post by TehCorwiz »

tomcat27 wrote: post #18

Joe Rogan is a very good listener and his show is popular for a good reason and that's not political. Silencing this way is just cancel culture.

No, it’s “then invisible hand of the market”. Neil Young is removing his product from a marketplace he disagrees with. This is exactly what people keep saying we should be doing to affect change, let our wallets speak. Except when they don’t like it. The truth is that boycotts are ridiculously common across the political spectrum and throughout history.
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