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Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

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Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#81

Post by makomk »

hughrr wrote: post #38
that_guy_iain wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK is only doing that because the PM has been so fragile because he's screwed up covid related things for so long he needs the backbenchers. They're also super desperate because they left the European Union and that is also having a terrible effect on the economy. Copying the UK is not a clever idea.

From UK. Can confirm. If you can’t serve as a exemplar, serve as an example. Well that’s how it feels living here anyway.

The news coverage here seems to treat anything the government does as the wrong thing just because they've done it though. For example, healthcare workers in England will be required to be vaccinated soon unless the government changes its mind, and the whole media has been on a push against it, including the BBC making their top headline on the news front page an article about how terrible it was and uncritically regurgitating the Welsh government's claims that it's pointless and counterproductive (they have no such mandate, but required vaccinations for nightclubs when England didn't). Now, this makes no scientific sense - healthcare is basically the one place where Covid vaccination to protect others is actually justifiable, given that they're interacting with high-risk patients who can't be fully protected by vaccination. It makes perfect political sense though, and based on past form the moment the government abandons this the media will immediately flip to supporting it.

Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#82

Post by lambdaba »

vanusa wrote: post #47
Mikeb85 wrote: post #4

The UK, Denmark and others moving to get rid of ALL restrictions. Meanwhile Canada, Australia and others devolving into police states... Edit - forgot some other countries. Netherlands, Ireland also ditching restrictions...

Denmark is moving to getting rid of ALL restrictions. We'll see. They did that in September of course, only to re-introduce them 2 months later. Keep in mind they're only able to do this (if it ends up working) because they have the highest vaccination rate in Europe. What Quebec's rates are, I don't know.

And yet their case rates are booming (top 3 in the world) and their deaths curve looks very similar to the 1st wave.

Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#83

Post by miked85 »

myko wrote: post #45
jaywalk wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes it unquestionable? There's no data or science to back this up, it's the definition of questionable.

There is a lot of data showing unvaccinated are at higher risk of severe illness and spread disease more than vaccinated folks. You are wrong. https://www.healthline.com/health-news/vaccinated-people-can... https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/2021112... The data is clear. They're not banned from buying groceries, they're banned from entering the stores - which unquestionably would lead to them spread…

I thought it's been established that the vaccinated spread the virus just as vaccinated do [1]. The vaccines might help the person taking it, but that isn't even clear anymore since the vaccines were not engineered for this variant.

[1] https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/cdc-director-covid-...

Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#84

Post by Baloo »

WaylonKenning wrote: post #26
Mikeb85 wrote: post #4

The UK, Denmark and others moving to get rid of ALL restrictions. Meanwhile Canada, Australia and others devolving into police states... Edit - forgot some other countries. Netherlands, Ireland also ditching restrictions...

As someone who lived in Canada, lives next to Australia, and lives in New Zealand, I wouldn't suggest any of these places are 'devolving into police states'. Having people do stuff to protect the safety of themselves and others is part of the social contract of these countries. We wear seatbelts. We wear helmets on Motorbikes. All things that restrict our freedom to damage ourselves. Because who incurs the cost of wh…

Meanwhile..

"There is not a single example of a country with less than 40% of the population overweight that has high death rates (over 10 per 100 000). Similarly, no country with a death rate over 100 per 100 000 had less than 50% of their population overweight.

When are we going to start banning overweight from consuming alcohol and eating fast food? They're putting tremendous pressure on our universal healthcare system!

Yes we have a social contract. Yes people take measures such as seatbelts and helmets. No, neither of those are the same as mandating individuals to take a vaccine that has limited benefit for the majority of people. Following a year long media campaign of fear, after accepting lockdowns, the only supposed solution is taking a vaccine that has been sped through clinical trials and at best serves to reduce the severity for those most at risk from Covid.

I see pure coercion. How long before access to the majority of vital services will be dependant on 'up to date' vaccination status, checked and logged in via your app whenever you travel, shop, work. How long before this turns into a social credit system?

Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#85

Post by rastignack »

muizelaar wrote: post #80
rastignack wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Having people do stuff to protect the safety of themselves and others is part of the social contract of these countries. Are smokers and alcohol consumers also targeted by these social credit type measures in those states ?

Yes, cigarettes and alcohol are taxed specifically by the state.

We are talking about much more alienating restrictions here.

Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#86

Post by colpabar »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #65
WaylonKenning wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who lived in Canada, lives next to Australia, and lives in New Zealand, I wouldn't suggest any of these places are 'devolving into police states'. Having people do stuff to protect the safety of themselves and others is part of the social contract of these countries. We wear seatbelts. We wear helmets on Motorbikes. All things that restrict our freedom to damage ourselves. Because who incurs the cost of wh…

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.MED.BEDS.ZS?location... https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.MED.PHYS.ZS?location... Yes, I'm ecstatic we pay a ton of taxes to have one of the worst healthcare systems in the developed world. Well behind the EU and OECD averages. We've got 1/3 the doctors per capita of France FFS... Now we get to continue to pay a ton of taxes to have a shitty healthcare system AND have bus…

What bugs me about the "we can't overwhelm the health care system" argument is that when/if this is all over, NOTHING will be done to improve the health care system to help prevent that from happening in the future. We'll all just continue to be told to be mad at each other, and no one in charge will be held accountable.

Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#87

Post by vanusa »

lambdaba wrote: post #82
vanusa wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Denmark is moving to getting rid of ALL restrictions. We'll see. They did that in September of course, only to re-introduce them 2 months later. Keep in mind they're only able to do this (if it ends up working) because they have the highest vaccination rate in Europe. What Quebec's rates are, I don't know.

And yet their case rates are booming (top 3 in the world) and their deaths curve looks very similar to the 1st wave.

Hey I'm not the one making the policy change.

I'm just saying, at least they have that (partial) justification. And that they say they "expect" rates to go down.

Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#88

Post by tsimionescu »

loceng wrote: post #67
xboxnolifes wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies just need to follow laws, they don't need an opinion on everything.

Hopefully then the companies are just as willing to pay fines for following illegal rules put in place without following the parliamentary process.

Even if the rule were found illegal, it wouldn't be illegal for any company to refuse access based on vaccination status, so no chance the company would be forced to pay a fine.

Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#90

Post by jayspell »

VHRanger wrote: post #6
superkuh wrote: post #2

The public policy responses to this pandemic would make a whole lot more sense if intramuscular (humoral) vaccination actually prevented (or even significantly mitigated) the spread of sars-cov-2. Unfortunately humoral vaccination only starts the B cell to plasma cells training and generation of igG antibodies in the body serum to protect internal organs. Other immune compartments like the upper respiratory mucosa ar…

Quebec has a heavily socialized medical system. 10% of the population is unvaccinated, but make up >50% of COVID beds in hopitals, a significant fraction of the *entire medical system*. At some point the other 90% of taxpayers shouldn't subsidized the stupid decisions of the remaining 10%. I'm not saying banning grocery store access is necessarily it, but something needs to be done

So why not un-socialize the medical system. Charge a premium for unvaccinated individuals. If I follow this train correctly the process is to declare health a right and therefore something run by the government, and then to declare that because of that right your other rights can be taken away by the government.
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