Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration • Hacker News Board

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#181

Post by cynix » Fri, Jan 14, 2022, 9:31 AM UTC

throwaway4good wrote: post #126

vore wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The judge's opinion does not concur: https://www.aljazeera.com/sports/2022/1/10/judge-reinstates-... Judge Kelly noted that Djokovic had provided officials at Melbourne’s airport with a medical exemption given him by Tennis Australia, which is organising the tournament, and two medical panels. “The point I’m somewhat agitated about is what more could this man have done?” Kelly asked Djokovic’s lawyer, Nick Wood. Wood…

Yes. Even the court says he provided the documentation required. I don't understand how anyone can defend Australia's arbritary and vengeful border practices. If the Australian authorities didn't want him in because he is an evil anti-vaxxer then they could have just denied visa from the get go.

Nope. That was a private comment made by the judge (who is obviously lacking in impartiality, since he made that comment very early on, before the two sides presented their cases). The decision to quash the original cancellation was due to agreement between Djokovic’s and the government’s legal teams, and the judge made no ruling of his own. See linked Twitter thread in the sibling comment.

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#182

Post by alkonaut » Fri, Jan 14, 2022, 9:33 AM UTC

ls15 wrote: post #151

linspace wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea, I'm no doctor. I find it surprising that a doctor would advise him to play at a competitive level nevertheless if he has some cardiac problem but who knows. Anyway I want to say that as a matter of fact if a court allows him to enter and play he should be allowed. Not interfering with court decisions is much more important than whether or not a player plays tennis, I don't care if it's an important pl…

> he has some cardiac problem but who knows He doesn't. He want's to avoid them. For males under 40 the risk for getting myocarditis is higher than for getting it from covid. That has been discussed on HN.

In the past when your risk of getting the disease was perhaps smaller maybe you could start doing this math. Now that it's clear that everyone will get the disease (multiple times) it's not so easy. Not least because even if you are a "make under 40", you eventually won't be.

Besides there are numerous other side effects from the virus than myocarditis. Focusinig on this particular one and ignoring all the others is pretty strange.

Relevant passage from the article I believe you are refering to shows that the disk is first of all extremely low in all groups, and second it's not very different in the younger group.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.23.21268276v...

In males aged less than 40 years, we estimated an additional 3 (95%CI 1, 5) and 12 (95%CI 1, 13) myocarditis events per million in the 1-28 days following a first dose of BNT162b2 and mRNA-1273, respectively; an additional 14 (95%CI 8, 17), 12 (95%CI 1, 7) and 101 (95%CI 95, 104) myocarditis events following a second dose of ChAdOx1, BNT162b2 and mRNA-1273, respectively; and an additional 13 (95%CI 7, 15) myocarditis events following a third dose of BNT162b2 vaccine. This compares with 7 (95%CI 2, 11) additional myocarditis events in the 1-28 days following a positive SARS-CoV-2 test. In older males, we estimated 3 (95% CI 2, 4) and 73 (95% 71, 75) additional myocarditis events per million following a third dose of BNT162b2 and a positive SARS-CoV-2 test, respectively.

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#183

Post by ajsnigrutin » Fri, Jan 14, 2022, 9:34 AM UTC

kleiba wrote: post #169

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to disagree https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/tobacco > Tobacco kills more than 8 million people each year. More than 7 million of those deaths are the result of direct tobacco use while around 1.2 million are the result of non-smokers being exposed to second-hand smoke. Two years, 16+mio deaths. Total covid deaths, a bit over 5 mio. edit: even obesity, 2.8mio per year, 5.6mio in two years - htt…

Two years, 16+mio deaths. Total covid deaths, a bit over 5 mio. I don't get it. You're arguing against government interventions because of relatively low fatality numbers. Yet, the fact that these numbers are not higher is a direct outcome of the world-wide vaccination campaigns. Don't you think you got it backwards?

I'm saying that we violated many basic human rights because of a disease that killed 5 mio people, citing those deaths as reasons to violate all the basic righs, while we're unwilling to violate a relatively minor right (to smoke), to save even more lives.

If you're saying we need a cufrew, because covid killed X people, but are not willing to ban the sale of cigarettes, even though they kill 3.2*X people, you're doing something wrong.

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#184

Post by ggrelet » Fri, Jan 14, 2022, 9:34 AM UTC

t0bia_s wrote: post #166

Arisaka1 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a Serbian who used to be a fan of Djokovic in spite of the fact that I'm not big into tennis, but after losing a family member to Covid seeing him deciding to die on the anti-vax hill broke my heart and I don't want anything to do with him.

By your logic... I know personaly two people dead two weeks after vax and one paralyzed on half body week after vax. Schould I consider Djokovic as hero?

Was all this the consequence of the vaccine or the Covid itself?

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#185

Post by ls15 » Fri, Jan 14, 2022, 9:36 AM UTC

schleck8 wrote: post #80

ls15 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Draconian ones

Literally 1984 or 1989 or something like that

No post body was provided.

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#186

Post by ajsnigrutin » Fri, Jan 14, 2022, 9:36 AM UTC

ljm wrote: post #167

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a loaded question. In slovenia, more people have died from smoking related illnesses than covid (even in the last two years), but somehow "corona lives matter", peoples personal choices to go out, get ill, and risk the 0.5% chance of death don't matter, governments take more and more power, because "every life matters", but on the other hand, you can still buy cigarettes everywhere. If every life matters, the…

Given the multiple 'X lives matter' references I think this response is probably more loaded than the question could ever have been. The thing with COVID is that it's a contagious and deadly disease. The thing with smoking, fizzy drinks and junk food is that they're not contagious and deadly diseases, they're lifestyle choices. You can't compare them like-for-like.

I'm not an american, and I don't really care about your internal issues. Our phrase is "vsako zivljenje steje", which is literally translated to "every life counts", but "matters" makes more sense in this context.

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#187

Post by native_samples » Fri, Jan 14, 2022, 9:37 AM UTC

Joeri wrote: post #179

wombatmobile wrote: post #5

David Crowe writes in The Age https://archive.ph/Ohx6d The political cost of letting Djokovic stay was too high for Morrison Australians have been barred from visiting a dying parent in hospital, blocked from seeing a new grandchild and forbidden from having a wedding. Should they accept that a tennis star gets the leeway they were denied? Angering those Australians would have been a huge danger for Morrison when he…

and may continue through the courts. Meta-thought: I have started to pay attention to just how often courts strike down executive decisions because they are unlawful, and strike down new laws because they are unconstitutional or in conflict with international agreements. People tend to blame activist judges, but most of the time the judges are just trying to interpret the laws as they are written. There seems to be a…

Non-democracies don't exactly have a great track record of legal nimbleness and enlightened decision making either.

The root cause here is ideology, which can occur in both democracies and dictatorships. The two are orthogonal - democracies can both regulate and deregulate, as can dictatorships.

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#188

Post by alkonaut » Fri, Jan 14, 2022, 9:37 AM UTC

_gohp wrote: post #180

ls15 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He is a male under 40, isn't he? He already had covid.

I am a fierce anti conspiracy person, but this covid situation is having me thinking. They say natural resistance is better or equal than from the vaccine, everyone apart from anti vaxxers like Djokovic has had a shot or two or three, there's no herd immunity or herd protection Can someone explain the math to me? Also people said the regular flu does not exist anymore, give or take, because everyone is wearing masks.…

> They say natural resistance is better or equal than from the vaccine

Who are "they" and what exactly are "they" saying? I think there is a consensus that even if you had the disease, it's wise choice to get vaccinated. Protection from vaccination and recovery is better than protection from only one of them, as far as I understand it.

> Can someone explain the math to me?

What math?

> Also people said the regular flu does not exist anymore

Seasonal flu will of course continue to be a thing. But restrictions obviously meant that last years flu season was kept low in many places around the world. This however means that there could be a worse wave coming this year (and it has happened too in many places - we are in the flu season in the wintery part of the world now). In places with good mask adherence, no big public events and so on, obviously ALL respiratory diseases will have a harder time spreading. But these restrictions are - hopefully - temporary, The flu will be fine.

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#189

Post by ls15 » Fri, Jan 14, 2022, 9:37 AM UTC

alkonaut wrote: post #172

ls15 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He is a male under 40, isn't he? He already had covid.

So he took the risk of myocarditis from Covid-19, over the risk of myocarditis from vaccine once already. That was a poor choice. He still faces the same risk in the future. He still has the same choice. It doesn't change because you are a healthy young person. The risk of this complication is higher from the disease than the vaccine in every group , (the male under 40 doesn't really make a big difference - there you…

> He still faces the same risk in the future.

He surely has some immunity now, no?

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#190

Post by guilhas » Fri, Jan 14, 2022, 9:39 AM UTC

celeduc wrote: post #125

guilhas wrote: post #118

Quoted post unavailable.

"rest of the world" being you , apparently.

I would even say just the world, including Australians. They are probably more angry with their gov than Djokovic

Is Pandemic Australia Still a Liberal Democracy? https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/pandemic-a...

Opinion | Covid Zero Is No Longer Working for Australia https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/08/opinion/australia-covid-d...

Djokovic's rare victory against Australia's COVID-19 tyranny https://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2022/01/12/commentary/w...

Australia once reveled in being the 'lucky country' on Covid-19. Now weary Aussies 'feel like prisoners' https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/24/australia/australia-lockdown-...

‘They’ve taken it way too far’: Australians living abroad fear being trapped if they return home to visit family https://theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/aug/07/theyve-ta...

Australia’s draconian streak means that it is struggling to find the Covid exit lane https://www.newstatesman.com/international-politics/coronavi...

Australia imposes draconian measures to curb Covid-19, passes surveillance bill giving unprecedented power to cops https://www.opindia.com/2021/09/australia-introduces-draconi...

Frustrated Australians liken travel bans to 'prison state' diktats https://www.ft.com/content/9cbbc348-12c0-4d16-8f3e-0b118c392...

Australian man brutally beats a policewoman as she tries to move him on while enforcing Sydney's draconian lockdown that only allows people to leave home with a 'reasonable excuse' https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9984889/Australian-...

The 10 most bizarre coronavirus pandemic rules around the world https://www.traveller.com.au/the-ten-most-bizarre-coronaviru...