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Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

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Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#121

Post by tigershark »

ls15 wrote: post #45
type0 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not dead yet and to fit the times I'd suggest renaming it to Australian Closed

It will not be known as the tournament where the best player wins, but as the tournament where the best vaccinated player wins, because the best player was not allowed to participate. It's not a top league tournament anymore, when you don't have all the best player, but only those that are allowed by government criteria.

Ah ok, so is he was discovered taking performance enhancing drugs you would complain in the same way saying that it’s unacceptable that only the best non-doped player can win. Your logic is completely flawed. If there are rules and he breaks then they have ALL the reasons to ban him.

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#122

Post by borispavlovic »

tigershark wrote: post #83
factorialboy wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The political cost of letting Djokovic stay was too high for Morrison > Australians have been barred from visiting a dying parent in hospital, blocked from seeing a new grandchild and forbidden from having a wedding. Should they accept that a tennis star gets the leeway they were denied? This is bizarre logic. "I got screwed, so someone else should get screwed too!" He got the exemption. It was challenged in court.…

No, it’s not bizarre at all. If he really was positive in December and attended several events while knowing that he was positive without taking any precautions it’s a criminal behaviour and they have all the rights to ban him on these grounds. If he wasn’t positive then it means that he forged his test certificate, that is equally bad. I don’t see any issue in banning someone that has been proven to be an health dan…

in the first case he's on the hook in Serbia, not in Australia

in the second case, these documents resolve to an official Serbian covid certificate web page and it's the country of Serbia responsibility to explain to other countries in the world how that was possible to happen and to find out who did it

now, the fact that Novak visited Spain and his agency "forgot" to mention it in the PLF that's a leverage that could be used

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#123

Post by askvictor »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #114
wombatmobile wrote: post #5

David Crowe writes in The Age https://archive.ph/Ohx6d The political cost of letting Djokovic stay was too high for Morrison Australians have been barred from visiting a dying parent in hospital, blocked from seeing a new grandchild and forbidden from having a wedding. Should they accept that a tennis star gets the leeway they were denied? Angering those Australians would have been a huge danger for Morrison when he…

> Should they accept that a tennis star gets the leeway they were denied? It seems Djokovic went through all the proper channels to get an exemption and visa. Australia's institutions gave him a visa. The real exemption is that a minister is disregarding Australia's institutions and cancelling his visa because "feelings". Australia needs to take a hard look at their laws and the way they treat their citizens instead…

There's also the issue of the immigration department seemingly not properly scrutinizing the application, as well as Djokovic lying on the application forms.

But most likely this is all an intentionally concocted distraction from government's failings in the current outbreak.

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#124

Post by qwerty456127 »

lb0 wrote: post #100
qwerty456127 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Australians have been barred from visiting a dying parent in hospital, blocked from seeing a new grandchild and forbidden from having a wedding. Should they accept that a tennis star gets the leeway they were denied? No, they should not have accepted being barred perhaps. When you are oppressed just insisting no other one is treated justfully (the way the court decided in accordance with the law) is not a morally r…

> No, they should not have accepted being barred. But what if most accepted those limitations, and while personally a disaster, found it on the other hand right to follow common sense and obey rules applying to everyone for the greater cause of society? Rules applying to everyone the same is one of the basic foundations of a just society... > Also expelling a person who has already got in the country physically and a…

> obey rules applying to everyone for the greater cause of society?

Sounds like communism. No cause can be considered greater than freedom.

> No matter what you argue beyond, the epidemiological aspect is now not really the point here anymore. He faked stuff

He should be investigated for faking then and expelled/imprisoned/fined by a court if evidence proves him guilty.

> second test was just created so he counts as recovered, which was the requirement to get in if not vaccinated

Just test him antibodies/T-cells + PCR and you know if a person used to be sick and recovered. No necessity for speculation here. Presence of immunity (which one only get through overcoming the sickness or a vaccine) is an objective thing. Is it not?

I would also suggest introducing a law sentencing people who falsely claim they are immune or expose others to a risk of being infected any other way to serve a sentence aiding in a hospital taking care of infected people.

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#126

Post by throwaway4good »

vore wrote: post #88
cynix wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even disregarding that the exemption was issued by the tennis association to play in the tournament, not for entering the country… it was predicated on him being able to provide a valid medical reason, _and_ not lying on his entry documents. Neither of which he managed to do.

The judge's opinion does not concur: https://www.aljazeera.com/sports/2022/1/10/judge-reinstates-... Judge Kelly noted that Djokovic had provided officials at Melbourne’s airport with a medical exemption given him by Tennis Australia, which is organising the tournament, and two medical panels. “The point I’m somewhat agitated about is what more could this man have done?” Kelly asked Djokovic’s lawyer, Nick Wood. Wood…

Yes. Even the court says he provided the documentation required.

I don't understand how anyone can defend Australia's arbritary and vengeful border practices.

If the Australian authorities didn't want him in because he is an evil anti-vaxxer then they could have just denied visa from the get go.

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#127

Post by tigershark »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #115
tigershark wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not true. In all the world covid caused way more deaths than smoke related diseases. If in Slovenia it’s not the case then they are massively undercounting covid deaths. And the covid mortality is 1%, not 0.5%. Stop spreading dangerous misinformation.

I have to disagree https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/tobacco > Tobacco kills more than 8 million people each year. More than 7 million of those deaths are the result of direct tobacco use while around 1.2 million are the result of non-smokers being exposed to second-hand smoke. Two years, 16+mio deaths. Total covid deaths, a bit over 5 mio. edit: even obesity, 2.8mio per year, 5.6mio in two years - htt…

Only in India the excess deaths were 4.5M in one year.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-57888460

The total death count for covid will be known only in the next years and it’s for sure many multiple of the current official numbers.

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#128

Post by sofixa »

ruszki wrote: post #32
King-Aaron wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Angering those Australians would have been a huge danger for Morrison when he is only a few months away from an election. This has been the entire strategy for the government's handling of the pandemic - national interests be damned, as long as it favours the party being re-elected.

I don't think that national interests really mattered anytime in any country. That is just a tool to keep power. Maybe it's important for some politician, but focusing on power grab is way more beneficial at the top.

There's no need to be so pessimistic. Plenty of people go into politics with good intentions, and some even stay that way after some time there. Some want to be remembered, some genuinely want to fix things. Some just want power.

Skepticism is healthy, full on pessimism "everything is just a power grab" is extremely unhealthy.

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#129

Post by throwaway4good »

mrath wrote: post #108
throwaway4good wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does this in any way make the Australian government look better?

Unfortunately whatever they do is not going to go well either locally or globally.

Maybe they should just do less then ...

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#130

Post by linspace »

ls15 wrote: post #82
linspace wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone who thinks Djokovic is at fault. I don't support executive power bypassing courts but I think this doesn't diminish the merit of the winner. He was more intelligent.

Mandating that players who are in the highest risk group for myocarditis must be vaccinated had no good basis to begin with

I have no idea, I'm no doctor. I find it surprising that a doctor would advise him to play at a competitive level nevertheless if he has some cardiac problem but who knows.

Anyway I want to say that as a matter of fact if a court allows him to enter and play he should be allowed. Not interfering with court decisions is much more important than whether or not a player plays tennis, I don't care if it's an important player on an important tournament, because for me it's not important. I think also he should not enter if he is not vaccinated but for me the "why" is much more important than the "what". We always ask politicians "what" are they going to do, not "why" and "how" and so we keep rewarding luck. So the thing is not if politicians did this or that when the pandemic started, the question is if they were motivated by political interest or followed doctors advice. In this case politicians should follow courts decisions.

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