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Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

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Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#151

Post by ls15 »

linspace wrote: post #130
ls15 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mandating that players who are in the highest risk group for myocarditis must be vaccinated had no good basis to begin with

I have no idea, I'm no doctor. I find it surprising that a doctor would advise him to play at a competitive level nevertheless if he has some cardiac problem but who knows. Anyway I want to say that as a matter of fact if a court allows him to enter and play he should be allowed. Not interfering with court decisions is much more important than whether or not a player plays tennis, I don't care if it's an important pl…

> he has some cardiac problem but who knows

He doesn't. He want's to avoid them. For males under 40 the risk for getting myocarditis is higher than for getting it from covid. That has been discussed on HN.

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#152

Post by Mikeb85 »

network2592 wrote: post #42
forty wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I heard in the news here in France, he should be fine for playing in France where so far sportsmen don't have to be vaccined, and it is not required either for a Visa.

Do you not need to prove vaccination to enter France if you are not a French or EU citizen? Or is the exception only for athletes? Even if a visa is granted, authorities can revoke it at any time as highlighted in Australia.

I entered France from Canada a month ago. They didn't check any documents other than my passport (pretty sure they didn't check it either, just flipped to an empty page and stamped it). Vaccination wasn't required. Negative PCR test wasn't required. The only requirement was a declaration that I didn't knowingly have COVID or any symptoms (which they never checked).

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#153

Post by alkonaut »

It was bloody naive of Djoko to even think that he would be eligible for entry into Australia, Victoria, and the Tournament, all with the same muddy paperwork. Whatever assurances he got from one party (A state representative, a tournament representative) obviously doesn't carry over to the next instance.

If he's allowed to play in the tournament but not enter the country, then he's out of luck. Same thing if he's allowed to enter the country but not the state or the tournament.

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#154

Post by celeduc »

relyks wrote: post #18
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #2

Did the question around potentially doctored documents ever reach a conclusion?

Djokovic admitted in a statement on his Instagram page that there was a mistake in his travel documents: https://www.instagram.com/p/CYnO7cDqbdj/ I don't think his statement puts him in the best light. He also admitted that he publicly took an interview when Djokovic knew that he was positive for COVID without giving a heads up to the interviewer. Although it was brief, he also removed his mask. I'm a fan of Djokovic…

"mistakes were made"

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#155

Post by Mikeb85 »

askvictor wrote: post #123
Mikeb85 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Should they accept that a tennis star gets the leeway they were denied? It seems Djokovic went through all the proper channels to get an exemption and visa. Australia's institutions gave him a visa. The real exemption is that a minister is disregarding Australia's institutions and cancelling his visa because "feelings". Australia needs to take a hard look at their laws and the way they treat their citizens instead…

There's also the issue of the immigration department seemingly not properly scrutinizing the application, as well as Djokovic lying on the application forms. But most likely this is all an intentionally concocted distraction from government's failings in the current outbreak.

So how did he win his first court challenge? Why aren't those institutions being scrutinized? Where's the proof he faked his documents and why isn't that alone cause for Australia's institutions to not have issued a visa?

Why did it take a last-minute act from a minister to revoke his visa?

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#156

Post by sofixa »

qwerty456127 wrote: post #124
lb0 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, they should not have accepted being barred. But what if most accepted those limitations, and while personally a disaster, found it on the other hand right to follow common sense and obey rules applying to everyone for the greater cause of society? Rules applying to everyone the same is one of the basic foundations of a just society... > Also expelling a person who has already got in the country physically and a…

> obey rules applying to everyone for the greater cause of society? Sounds like communism. No cause can be considered greater than freedom. > No matter what you argue beyond, the epidemiological aspect is now not really the point here anymore. He faked stuff He should be investigated for faking then and expelled/imprisoned/fined by a court if evidence proves him guilty. > second test was just created so he counts as…

> Sounds like communism. No cause can be considered greater than freedom.

Are you a 10 year old American from the Cold War? What you're saying is so comprehensively stupid I'm not entirely certain you're a real human.

No, that's not what communism is. If you want to know what it really is, go read "Das Kapital" and the "Communist Manifesto", you might learn a thing or two.

As for freedom... it's subjective. Absolute freedom is obviously incompatible with living in a society with other humans. And as we've seen time and again, most people value many things over freedom. Just look at Singapore and Rwanda, people there are happy with the prosperity and stability even if they're really not free on a lot of levels.

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#157

Post by fabian2k »

ls15 wrote: post #146
fabian2k wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The risk of getting a myocarditis from COVID itself is higher for him, if we compare the Biontech/Pfizer vaccine. Only for Moderna for people below 40 the risk was higher for myocarditis, and even that comparison doesn't include all the other risks from a COVID infection.

Is he not a male under 40?

He can take Biontech/Pfizer and not Moderna (which is also the recommendation in some countries for younger people)

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#158

Post by sofixa »

kunagi7 wrote: post #44
ls15 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who is going to respect such a vicory when the current champion has been blocked from participating?

Exactly. It's still a victory but its value is nil. It's like removing Bayern Munich or PSG from the Champions League and being happy that Benfica or Villareal get to the finals.

If Bayern or PSG cheated or broke the rules somehow, nobody would complain. Nobody cries over Serie A titles while Juventus were in Serie B for the Calciopoli scandal.

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#159

Post by vore »

roca wrote: post #145
vore wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The judge's opinion does not concur: https://www.aljazeera.com/sports/2022/1/10/judge-reinstates-... Judge Kelly noted that Djokovic had provided officials at Melbourne’s airport with a medical exemption given him by Tennis Australia, which is organising the tournament, and two medical panels. “The point I’m somewhat agitated about is what more could this man have done?” Kelly asked Djokovic’s lawyer, Nick Wood. Wood…

I do not understand the "what more could this man have done?" line. Trying very hard to meet the rules for entering a country, but not actually being able to meet them, does not normally give people the right to enter that country.

I think the sticking point here was that he was given approval by the Victorian government which failed to communicate with the federal government. Arguably you can frame it as his fault that he did not get an assurance from the federal government, but a reasonable person would not expect the state government to have failed to secure the required assurances from the federal government.
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