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The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

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Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#861

Post by _ph_ »

ericpauley wrote: post #253
mikenew wrote: post #124

Been extremely happy with mine the past couple months. The little modular port attachments seemed like a novelty at first, but now it feels absurd that you'd buy a laptop with a bunch of "hardcoded" ports that you can't ever change. The only real Linux related quirk I've run into so far is that you have to disable panel self refresh (it's on by default and causes stuttering). Other than that tiny thing I pretty much…

Maybe I need some convincing here. How is the "modular port" concept any different than a universal port with dongles (i.e., how Macs have been since 2016). To me the fact that the port attachments are recessed is little more than a gimmick. Especially as all of my devices have transitioned to USB-C anyway, dongles/"modular ports" feel more like a stopgap measure than one requiring a permanent form factor change.

The thing is, that the dongles are integrated into the laptop body. For a portable machine, this is huge. I love my 16" MB pro and do think that 4x USB-C is great for connectivity, but having to carry up to 4 dongles with me any time I move between working at home and the office is pretty much a nightmare. The built-in dongle ports, if you might call them that, are a much more elegant solution - somthing Apple should have invented (and could have sold for a lot of money). On top of that, they seem to provide even more "dongles" than laptop ports out of the box.

It is also probably mechanically much more robust, if you plug cables into your dongle box instead of into the (motherboard mounted) port directly. If one of the dongle boxes breaks, it should be cheap to exchange.

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#862

Post by tathisit »

mtrower wrote: post #834
tathisit wrote: post #742

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's be honest here, windows is going to be slow as a moonwalking Michael Jackson with that processor. Windows is, I kid you not, an order of magnitude slower than linux/macos.

What? Windows 10 isn’t particularly slow on my i7-4770K. You’re telling me that the i5-1135G7 (which benchmarks faster) is going to perform worse than my 8 year old CPU in general OS use?

You don't know what you're missing out on. I have a ryzen 3600+nvme and it takes less time to boot into Linux, unzip a large file, and boot back into windows than it takes to unzip the file on windows, even if anti-virus is disabled.

Unzipping is a single threaded task, so it's going to run at the same speed even on a 5950x.

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#863

Post by _ph_ »

clepto wrote: post #426

I just got one of these last weekend(I ordered it in early August) and so far it’s really great. The modular I/O and general mission of the company was what initially sold me on it, but now actually being hands on with it, I definitely feel secure in my decision to get one. I can’t overstate how good these modular ports are. I also really like that you can bring your own hardware in a lot of cases. For example I had…

I would assume I am using the right shift key like 50% of the time - for all the capital letters which are on the left half of the keyboard.

Strangely though, for control sequences, I basically exclusively use the left control key.

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#864

Post by iSnow »

Jap2-0 wrote: post #701
teawrecks wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one wants all the different ports though, they usually just want the correct ports. If you're plugging more than 4 things into your laptop at once you should be using a dock.

I don't want all the different ports at once, but I definitely use more than 4 in total. My current laptop the following (and I'd love to have more): - 2 USB-C (1 of which is used for charging, I'll probably have reason to use the other at some point with increasing USB-C adoption) - 2 USB-A (1 for a wireless mouse, 1 frequently used for flash drives and whatnot) - SD (used occasionally - cameras and with an adapter…

I'm using an external display connected via Thunderbolt/USB-C instead of HDMI so I can use the display to

- power the laptop

- plug in the mouse plug into its USB-A port

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#865

Post by iSnow »

teatree wrote: post #771
ricardobeat wrote: post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't look like a no-brainer to me (already a Mac user). The MBP has a better screen, better battery life, performance, has a metal body, is completely silent and has nicer software. That said, you should get the Air instead which is $999 with almost exactly the same specs, minus the annoying touch bar, and a tad lighter at 1.29kg.

Also comes from a company that does its best to make products irreparable, irrespective of the environmental damage it causes, to pad their bottom line. If we don't vote with our wallet, for the right thing, we deserve the worse future that we are going to get.

This is exactly it.

I do like MacOS more than Ubuntu (which I also use), and lately, customizability of Ubuntu has gone down too (As an old Mac-user, I want a menu bar, I actively dislike menus on each window) and the M1/M1X look real sweet compared to intel.

But Apple is the most anti-consumer company there is and I consider buying a Framework to give them a boost and hopefully purchase a laptop that will not need a full replacement for years. The ecological footprint of electronics is bad enough as it is, no need to reward companies that want you to throw away whole computers after 3y.

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#866

Post by _ph_ »

krrrh wrote: post #529
destitude wrote: post #258

Annoys the crap out of me that Apple tries to claim how "environmentally friendly" they are and yet the biggest problem is they make all their computers be disposable and extremely difficult to repair. They've gone out of their way to do this by soldering in memory and SSD, gluing batteries in, etc. Shame on them.

Putting upgradeability aside, Macs typically have longer usable lifespans as evinced by their relatively high resale value. Anecdotally, it's common to find 5-7 year old MacBooks being used by their original owners (I'm typing on one right now), and Apple will offer around ⅓ of the original value on a 5 year old machine as a no hassle trade-in because their refurb partners are able to sell them (you can usually get m…

Macs can have a very long usable lifespan - if they don't require a repair. Then even young machines are quickly totaled as soon as they are out of warranty. I wonder how many macbooks ended up in landfill because of broken keyboards which where too expensive to repair (like 600$ ?), though keyboards shouldn't just break and not cost more than 100$ to exchange...

My 6 year old iMac has a fan which sounds horrible, would be easy to clean if I just could access it... and while the HD is actually still upgradable, I can't reach it any better than the dirty fan.

And of course there are batteries, which do fail quite often after like 5 years and are also not meant to be exchangeable. In Europe, it might be difficult to get Apple to exchange the battery of older laptops though.

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#867

Post by wokwokwok »

tomxor wrote: post #730
ricardobeat wrote: post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't look like a no-brainer to me (already a Mac user). The MBP has a better screen, better battery life, performance, has a metal body, is completely silent and has nicer software. That said, you should get the Air instead which is $999 with almost exactly the same specs, minus the annoying touch bar, and a tad lighter at 1.29kg.

> already a Mac user [...] and has nicer software Without starting flames... let's agree this is subjective. For many people the options for the Framework are preferable.

Perhaps, but I think it’s a fair comment to say that more effort has been put into making it nice, objectively, than any Linux desktop alternative.

Maybe some folk prefer the alternatives, and that’s fair, but if you did some pretty objective metrics of bugs, visual inconsistencies, user workflows for standard tasks (like adding new hardware…) well, it’s impossible to deny that Apple has significantly invested in making these things “nice”.

Its really quite difficult to argue the software is really the compelling offering with Framework laptops.

You can already get that on other systems if that’s your thing, and that’s never been enough to do more than barely raise a few eyebrows from folk who are particularly keen.

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#868

Post by iSnow »

thinkingemote wrote: post #504
NotPractical wrote: post #492

The baseline, preassembled model starts at $1000. Windows 10 Home, quad-core i5, 8 GB RAM, 256 GB storage, a nice 2256x1504 display, thin and light (1.3kg, 11.7" x 9" x 0.6"). Compare that to your other thin and light options at this pricepoint. XPS 13, $1020 * i5 * 8 GB RAM * 256 GB storage * 1920 x 1200 display * 1.2 kg, 11.6" x 7.8" x 0.6" MacBook Pro: $1300 * M1 * 8 GB RAM * 256 GB storage * 2560 x 1600 display *…

Early adopters, hardcore techies may love repairability but they will buy whatever comes out next. What counts is the majority of buyers after these techies. It's similar the early buyers of a Tesla who could say "ahh it will be so eco I don't have to buy another car for 10 years" and, 3 years later they buy themselves the new model as they would have normally do with a combustion engine car. Consumers first. The key…

The real problem with the Framework laptop is that the ordinary consumer will not assemble their own laptop or upgrade it later. They will just go and buy a $500 cheap laptop with a 15" screen and if it breaks, buy a new generation.

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#870

Post by Grustaf »

strix_varius wrote: post #323
ericpauley wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I need some convincing here. How is the "modular port" concept any different than a universal port with dongles (i.e., how Macs have been since 2016). To me the fact that the port attachments are recessed is little more than a gimmick. Especially as all of my devices have transitioned to USB-C anyway, dongles/"modular ports" feel more like a stopgap measure than one requiring a permanent form factor change.

I find it hilarious that we spend multiple thousands of dollars on sleek, elegant hardware and then hook up chunky plastic dongles to overcome their bad hardware interfaces. So I love the idea of these ports (agreed, they're basically "recessed dongles"). I couldn't lose them / forget them. They wouldn't take up space in my bag while I'm traveling. I could "set and forget" them to perfectly match whatever desktop / d…

1. Most people don't need to use any dongles at all

2. Most people that do need them, only need them for connecting to their own stuff, so they can just keep the dongle attached to the peripheral

And also, if you want to be able to switch out your recessed dongles, you will need to keep track of them in your bag.

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