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Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

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Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#531

Post by pasabagi »

baumy wrote: post #478
spookthesunset wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I absolutely adore when publicly available data sourced from government agencies gets downvoted. Since March of 2020 any kind of statement suggesting covid isn’t as bad as some make it out to be is met with fierce vitriol. The number of times I’ve been called “dangerous” for posting well sourced data that clearly shows the IFR of covid is not 1-2%… It’s as if people believe that any good news will result in others “n…

I remember when I first saw that USC dataset, it was mind blowing. Any public health official worth their salt should be absolutely horror struck that the public's perception of the risk profile of a disease is off by multiple orders of magnitude. Their entire job is to accurately inform the public about public health risks, and that dataset is proof that they've failed more spectacularly than I would have thought po…

Mmmm - I thought the problem was that the risk profile is it's not linear? So like, if enough people have it, they swamp emergency rooms, and suddenly, a lot more people are dying than would be dying at a lower incidence rate. So from a public health perspective, you're not really looking at 'how likely is this to kill people' but rather, 'how likely is this to crash an already fragile medical system' and thereby cause a lot of people to die.

I think the point about COVID is that if everybody just ignored it, this is absolutely what would happen, and case fatality rates could get pretty high.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#532

Post by himinlomax »

swader999 wrote: post #502
himinlomax wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is completely at odds with what the experts say. They could be all wrong, or you could be. What are your credentials in virology/immunology? And do you have examples of vaccinations favoring the apparition of variants for other diseases? As far as I know, that's never happened. On the contrary, I've seen researchers point to immunocompromised patients as possible sources for variants, as the infection lingers in…

Shortening it if it doesn't bring the R naught below 1 doesn't have much advantage. Look at what happened with a vaccine that was applied to the poultry industry that didn't prevent transmission and had similar mutational characteristics to SarsCov2: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/tthis-chicken-vaccine-m...

> Shortening it if it doesn't bring the R naught below 1 doesn't have much advantage.

If it reduces R, other measures can help bring it down further. Further down the line, inhaled vaccines currently in development targeting the mucosal membrane are likely to enhance efficacy.

> Look at what happened with a vaccine that was applied to the poultry industry that didn't prevent transmission and had similar mutational characteristics to SarsCov2: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/tthis-chicken-vaccine-m...

So that vaccine, uniquely, precisely caused the infection to linger instead of quickly killing the host. That's not what's happening with Covid and current vaccines, the opposite in fact is.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#533

Post by himinlomax »

swader999 wrote: post #504
foota wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact is that the majority of cases are still coming from unvaccinated people though, this hypothetical widespread infection of vaccinated people you're suggesting isn't happening.

Right now in my area 1 in 4 new cases are in fully vaccinated people. Why is Gibraltar experiencing a surge in cases with 99% of its population fully vaccinated? Its a leaky vaccine and this has huge implications for producing variants that are more deadly. See the article I posted on Marek's vaccine in chickens.

> Its a leaky vaccine and this has huge implications for producing variants that are more deadly.

The Covid vaccines reduce the duration of the infection (as well as reducing the likelihood of infection). The Marek vaccine caused it to last longer, by prolonging the life of the host. You're drawing the exact opposite conclusion to what your data shows.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#534

Post by random314 »

JoshuaDavid wrote: post #454
random314 wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of these studies suggest that getting a vaccine increases your risk. It can only decrease it.

Is your claim that the vaccines don't themselves have any risks or side effects associated with them? "The vaccine, on average, will reduce your risk" is one claim that is correct for most people, but "the vaccine can only reduce your risk" is a much stronger claim that is not universally true (if you don't agree, consider whether one should get a daily dose of the vaccine).

My claim is exactly what it is. You don't have to modify it.

None of these studies suggest that getting a vaccine increases your risk. It can only decrease it.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#535

Post by kongin »

thehappypm wrote: post #134
kongin wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking at Israel third dose boosters are pretty much the only thing that stopped their deaths from growing in lock step with their cases: https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19vaccin... Without them they were headed to the same daily death rate per million as the US. How they are at half the death rate.

I’m unconvinced. The death rate in Israel is lower than the US for many reasons — including a far less obese population, a younger population, a higher vaccination rate, and (likely) more willingness to do things like mask up voluntarily. They don’t have an Arkansas. The cases started falling around when the boosters started but it could just be the natural rise and fall. Timing is not enough proof for me.

>The death rate in Israel is lower than the US for many reasons — including a far less obese population, a younger population, a higher vaccination rate, and (likely) more willingness to do things like mask up voluntarily. They don’t have an Arkansas.

They have the Ultra Orthodox which make Mississippi look like NYC.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#536

Post by random314 »

dgfitz wrote: post #441
random314 wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does getting a vaccine affect a young healthy person negatively? It is immoral for the same reason as refusing to help others survive at zero cost to you.

> How does getting a vaccine affect a young healthy person negatively? Isn't that a reason people don't want the shot? Because they're not sure of the answer to that question. I got my 2 shots. Had to drive 1.5 hours each way both times, find someone to watch my kids and burn up 2 Saturdays that I could have spent doing something I wanted to do that wasn't getting a shot. To claim there is zero cost is insincere at b…

I am not sure which country you are in because I can walk into pharmacies and grocery stores and get a shot while shopping. Vaccine appointments were booked out early in the year in the United states. You could have just waited. The US government/pharma companies cant produce 600 million doses in a couple of weeks.

For me both shots were zero cost, as for every other person I know.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#537

Post by random314 »

betwixthewires wrote: post #497
random314 wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does getting a vaccine affect a young healthy person negatively? It is immoral for the same reason as refusing to help others survive at zero cost to you.

If you answer my question I'll answer yours. The vaccine does not come with 0 cost.

What was the cost to you? Sore arm? Feverish for a day?

It sucks to be surrounded by people who won't give a shit about senior Citizens, immunocompromised neighbors or older folks in their own families. It is indeed a lack of morality.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#539

Post by throwaway0a5e »

spywaregorilla wrote: post #278
bwship wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole point of the original comment was that 1. someone with the vaccine and someone without both had an identical reaction to the virus and 2. just because everyone on the pro-vaccine side makes claims that this vaccine is safe, there are no long-term studies on it. So my point about my immune system was that yes I was willing to roll the dice and deal with the virus when/if it came to me. And I did. I will get…

There are no long term studies on COVID. But what informatrion we do have suggests it can cause prolonged damage. Including erectile dysfunction.

Damn near (i.e. I no of no exceptions but I'm hedging my bets against the nit-pickers) every respiratory disease comes with a litany of possible long term effects that tend to mostly affect the people with the worst cases. Covid doesn't yet seem to be particularly special thus far in terms of likelihood or severity of long term effects.

If you can't breath stuff in your body breaks. Water is wet. More news at 11.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#540

Post by Thlom »

fy20 wrote: post #419
blunte wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> complete and utter failure on all levels Is the There's an immense machine at work spreading FUD about the vaccine, and whole swaths of (mostly red) states where people refuse to get vaccinated. So at least some of the reason for the low vaccination rate is due to no fault of the system, but rather the parties with an interest in working against the system. I live in NL, and people here were anxiously waiting their…

I live in another European country and people here were also patiently waiting there turn... and then those people got vaccinated and nobody else wants to. This week the government has put into effect new regulations that effectively ban unvaccinated people from going into many shops and restaurants, as a way of trying to encourage more people to take up vaccines. They are also selling excess vaccines to African coun…

And I live in another European country and we have reached 90% with first dose and 80% fully vaccinated, of the population over 18. Currently vaccinating 16-17 years old and will probably start with 12-15 years old in not too long. Younger children will not be vaccinated for now.
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