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Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

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Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#131

Post by Robotbeat »

occz wrote: post #5

I think this is the correct analysis - the focus should be to provide vaccines to the rest of the worlds nations that have not yet gotten widespread access to vaccines. This is likely to cause the greatest benefit in the form of fewer global deaths, and reduced global spread of the disease.

But we do not have a limited number of vaccines. At this point there has been plenty of time supply chains to produce the necessary precursors so we are limited entirely by demand. If we are distributing extra vaccines to other countries it is because we don’t want to not because we can’t or because we’re fighting over a single scarce resource.

There is no evidence that we have to choose between boosters or sending vaccines to other countries.

This is the same flawed logic that officials made when they spread doubt about the effectiveness of masks early in the pandemic, hoping to “conserve” masks for healthcare workers.

The assumption of vaccine scarcity is actually a hidden assumption made outside the expertise of those who aren’t deeply knowledgeable about vaccine supply chains.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#132

Post by Robotbeat »

swader999 wrote: post #20
raesene9 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd agree in the ideal world that's exactly what should happen, however in reality there are a load of unadministered doses in the US ( https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1437617018782449668?s=2... ) which will go to waste if not used, so it would seem to make sense to use those for boosters where they're available.

By the time these are distributed the virus will have drifted and these legacy doses likely not as effective with the new strains.

Which is why we should use them as soon as possible.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#133

Post by Robotbeat »

ctrlp wrote: post #79
hellbannedguy wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they can keep the Moderna, and Pfizer vaccine, at below freeing? I just picture America the "great" delivering vaccines, and there's no infrastructure on the other end. On a selfish note, I wouldn't mind closing all ports of entry until this virus is truly under control.

Good luck closing the U.S. southern border.

That’s not really the concern. Foot travel is ridiculously slow. This virus travels by air, first class.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#134

Post by thehappypm »

kongin wrote: post #45
colechristensen wrote: post #39

They need to make the actual data based argument not just appeal to authority. Booster shots have these benefits, these risks, and these tertiary effects. The argument seems to be that boosters have small increases in immunity, very small difficult to quantify side effects likely similar, and because of limited global supply and large numbers of unvaccinated. The optimal deployment might be a very few should have boo…

Looking at Israel third dose boosters are pretty much the only thing that stopped their deaths from growing in lock step with their cases: https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19vaccin... Without them they were headed to the same daily death rate per million as the US. How they are at half the death rate.

I’m unconvinced.

The death rate in Israel is lower than the US for many reasons — including a far less obese population, a younger population, a higher vaccination rate, and (likely) more willingness to do things like mask up voluntarily. They don’t have an Arkansas.

The cases started falling around when the boosters started but it could just be the natural rise and fall. Timing is not enough proof for me.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#135

Post by incrudible »

AzzieElbab wrote: post #130
epmaybe wrote: post #95

I think this reporting is dancing around the issue, that the vaccine supply is most concentrated in countries that have essentially reached their maximum vaccination percentage. By not providing access to those developing or smaller countries, larger countries are shooting themselves in the proverbial global foot. I don’t think countries like the US and Canada aren’t trying to do that, I just think these experts woul…

sounds like another policy/politicized blanket statement not based on science. Have they tested levels of anti-bodies? Why is Israel with its early high vaccinations levels doing third shots?

> Why is Israel with its early high vaccinations levels doing third shots?

Desperation. This is a case of politicians overpromising on something they could not deliver. Science will have to take a back seat.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#136

Post by Anthony-G »

KoftaBob wrote: post #98
thrownaway561 wrote: post #96

ugh... can we please just get a medical expert to publish a report directly rather than having the media report it? I am so tried of the way the media twists things to suit their point of view or sensationalize things. I just want direct information... is that too hard to ask for?

This is the direct link to the medical journal that this article is reporting on: https://www.thelancet.com/pb-assets/Lancet/pdfs/S01406736210...

Thanks for the link to the source article. That URL might work for users who have an account with the Lancet but when I followed that link, I got a PDF containing the following text:

> For full text of this paper please go to https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6...

This URL (also posted earlier in another comment by dfawcus) contains the journal article.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#137

Post by soared »

Robotbeat wrote: post #131
occz wrote: post #5

I think this is the correct analysis - the focus should be to provide vaccines to the rest of the worlds nations that have not yet gotten widespread access to vaccines. This is likely to cause the greatest benefit in the form of fewer global deaths, and reduced global spread of the disease.

But we do not have a limited number of vaccines. At this point there has been plenty of time supply chains to produce the necessary precursors so we are limited entirely by demand. If we are distributing extra vaccines to other countries it is because we don’t want to not because we can’t or because we’re fighting over a single scarce resource. There is no evidence that we have to choose between boosters or sending v…

Source? Everything I’ve read talks about that decision being very real.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#138

Post by Ambolia »

epmaybe wrote: post #95

I think this reporting is dancing around the issue, that the vaccine supply is most concentrated in countries that have essentially reached their maximum vaccination percentage. By not providing access to those developing or smaller countries, larger countries are shooting themselves in the proverbial global foot. I don’t think countries like the US and Canada aren’t trying to do that, I just think these experts woul…

Seems more an acknowledgement that zero-Covid is never ever going to happen. At which point not sure if vaccinating outside of risk populations or to control hospitalizations if they are too high makes any sense.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#139

Post by mchusma »

The whole booster conversation seems like a political game.

If you have a vaccine, then your risk of death is far below that of the flu (statistically).

If you don't have a vaccine by now, you want covid instead and this booster conversation is irrelevant.

Kids are banned from taking anything.

So I expect booster or no booster, frankly it just won't matter much at the population scale.

I also don't understand the mask/booster thing now.

Is it to protect kids? If so, then all that effort is better directed at the FDA who has banned them from getting the vaccine. I think this is the area where people should have the most anger and Biden should frankly push legislation to replace or reform the FDA. Their behavior has been atrocious.

Is it to protect the unvaccinated? COVID is not going away, so IMO here we just want everyone in this population to get the disease as fast as possible to get it over with. Spreading is basically "good" for this group.

Is it to protect the vaccinated? This makes no sense, as the risk to the vaccinated well below the range we have accepted for decades.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#140

Post by uselesscynicism »

sradman wrote: post #77

There is not strong evidence supporting a 3rd booster dose in immunocompetent people. We have partly seen a misinterpretation of the Israeli data [1] and specifically the single low effectiveness value that appears to be the result of Simpson's Paradox [2]. Dr. Fauci reported this single value decline from the high nineties to the high seventies on Andy Slavitt's podcast [3]. Pfizer's CEO has promoted this same data,…

I'm fairly convinced that the pharmaceutical companies want Uncle Sam to buy and mandate 350 million shots per year and that's why the boosters are being pushed and combined with flu shots, while Dear Leader figures out the best way to dictate the health choices of his subjects without so much as first having Congress vote on it.
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