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Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

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Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#421

Post by rajin444 »

n8henrie wrote: post #362
billycorben2 wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am 28. A programmer with a sedentary lifestyle. I was covid positive last October and kicked it fine (verified with a test). I was tested 2 weeks ago for antibodies, my results were a “76” (I assume percentage?). Why should I get vaccinated?

I've seen several patients that were sicker the second time they got COVID, including people dying in their 20s and 30s. I can't speculate on what their antibody tests might have showed beforehand. Why would you not get vaccinated?

Lack of evidence.

Your post is using scary anecdotes to try and persuade. That does not come off as trustworthy.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#422

Post by Clubber »

nielsbot wrote: post #390
nsxwolf wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe we'd see more people choose to be vaccinated if we'd: * Stop lying * Stop threatening * Stop mocking people when they die

You think not mocking people when they die will increase vaccination rates? I honestly don't really know, but I'm skeptical. Adding social pressure to vaccinate is useful I think tho. We will see what happens with these new mandates.

>You think not mocking people when they die will increase vaccination rates? I honestly don't really know, but I'm skeptical.

Sure, say you had a parent or close family member die, then someone mocked that. How would you feel about that person? Would you listen to anything they had to say, or just want to punch them in the face?

>Adding social pressure to vaccinate is useful I think tho.

I don't know the answer, but shaming people and mocking them hasn't worked in the last 20 years; in fact it's made us even more partisan, divided and hateful towards each other. Why do you think it would work now?

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#423

Post by HWR_14 »

oppositelock wrote: post #213
KingMachiavelli wrote: post #155

Why? Probably because everyone and their uncle self-diagnosed a bad cold as COVID-19 and plenty more would lie about having natural immunity. Still I don't understand the current approach to COVID in the US. Vaccines are safe and available yet we only just approved the use in children under 12. I have heard second hand many doctors are downplaying the importance of the vaccine for people under 18. On the other hand p…

I've got a child under 12, and while everyone in my household over 12 is vaccinated, I'm not sure if the vaccine has any point for him. If you look at CDC stats, today there are only 412 reported covid19 deaths in the 0-17 age group, 138 in the 0-4 group, meaning 274 in the 4-17 group out of 670,000. Furthermore, kids rarely need treatment, so most infections go undiagnosed. While I have no objection to a vaccine, an…

A large number of the breakthrough cases I'm (personally) aware of are coming from unvaccinated kids to their parents. I would definitely vaccinate your child once it's approved for under 12 - for your whole family's sake. Then tell them they're doing it to protect their family and let them feel like a brave hero.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#424

Post by grepfru_it »

jowday wrote: post #319
swader999 wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are previously infected or not in a vulnerable group its not selfish or stupid to avoid this vaccine. You can manage it with monoclonal antibodies if you do get a severe outcome. Mass vaccinating the entire population for a respiratory virus that mutates so easily creates a whole host of other problems and a never ending pandemic of variants that may actually get more severe.

>If you are previously infected or not in a vulnerable group its not selfish or stupid to avoid this vaccine. You can manage it with monoclonal antibodies if you do get a severe outcome. But there's a chance of you spreading the infection to someone who's vulnerable in the process of recovering from it. Or someone else who ends up spreading it to someone who's vulnerable. Could just be that you pass by someone in you…

Just an FYI it’s possible to spread the virus even with the vaccine, so it is best to isolate and quarantine regardless of vaccination status

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#425

Post by nanis »

pessimizer wrote: post #371
nanis wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> running entire population through antibody test just to find A red herring if I have ever seen one. Assuming for a moment the premise that one must be forced to establish their immunity to a particular disease before being allowed to leave their homes, all that would be required would be to allow individuals who believe they've had COVID-19 and do not wish to get the vaccine to be able use their test results as pro…

> Note, this does NOT require some authority forcing the entire population take specific tests. The red herring is replying to someone saying that a lot of tests would have to be done with a denial that people would be forced to take tests. Also, this would require that some authority would need to have those people take specific tests, monitored and tracked in a specific way. Allowing people to claim to have had it…

> I wish all of the willfully unvaccinated would get covid tomorrow

Nice.

> and the rest of us could stay home for a week.

Feel free to isolate yourself as long as you wish, but it sounds like you are feeling a little envious that other people were able to have fuller lives during this period.

You might want to read https://amzn.to/3hxFCFa

Also, note the comment I am replying to said:

>> > running entire population through antibody test just to find

So, I don't know what game you are playing.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#426

Post by bigodbiel »

rajin444 wrote: post #8

It's very concerning that the president is saying things like "your refusal has cost all of us" and "our patience is wearing this" when talking to people with natural immunity who have not received the vaccine. As president, he should be looking for every reason to not alienate his own citizens. It seems like he's doing the opposite. I'm not really sure why. My best guess is politics has become all about polarization…

The article clearly states that one of the reasons for shrugging natural immunity is politics, there are prominent GOP figures supporting natural immunity in lieu of vaccines. So being against natural immunity becomes not only a public health policy but a political attack on one’s opponents and applauded by the base. This is what Biden is doing.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#427

Post by jowday »

throwawayfear wrote: post #411
jowday wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd agree with you that vaccine passports definitely represent a sacrifice of individual liberty for safety - but what makes you say that that they're "completely unnecessary"? If we accept that a vaccinated person has a lowered, but not eliminated, chance of contracting and transmitting COVID, wouldn't it make sense to avoid contact with people that are at a much higher risk of infection? If you feel that the tradeo…

They would reduce transmission of the virus in the same way that locking everyone in temperature-controlled air-corrected 24/7-monitored government housing pods would reduce the transmission. Maybe those pods are better, because they could ship us food and let us out for exercise at times determined by an efficiency algorithm! The question is, is the cost worth it? There's no need for a "sacrifice of individual liber…

It sounds like you just disagree with the tradeoff between liberty and safety, then. But it does lower transmission, and flashing a card before you go into a bar the same way you flash your driver's license isn't as onerous as the weird government pod scenario you outlined above.

>unhealthy, unclean, even dangerous.

This is probably how I'd describe wilfully unvaccinated people, yeah.

Also curious where you got the 100 million number from - AFAICT there have been 40 million covid infections in the US.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#428

Post by heleninboodler »

tomohawk wrote: post #320
beaner wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I have heard second hand many doctors are downplaying the importance of the vaccine for people under 18 The vaccine is not important for people under 18. Only 412 people age 17 or younger in the US have died from covid. [0] Teenage boys are six times more likely to suffer from heart problems from the vaccine than be hospitalised from Covid-19. [1] [0] https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-by-Sex... […

Minor correction. That 412 number is "covid involved", not "covid caused". This could be that the death was not at all due to covid, but the cadaver tested positive. They were in a car accident, for example. This could be actually caused by covid primarily. This could be covid tipped someone over the edge who was already very ill. EDIT: also hospitalizations for children are rare https://gis.cdc.gov/grasp/COVIDNet/CO…

If you are skeptical and think "COVID involved" according to CDC might mean they could have died of other things but also happened to have COVID, then here is an exercise you should do: First, go to CDC and download all the death data for 2015-2020. Second, import this into your spreadsheet of choice and plot all of these deaths as 6 individual time-series plots with Jan-Dec as the X axis. Third, observe that the curves are nearly identical for 2015-2019, with the exception of a very slightly elevated curve for one of the flu seasons (I think it was the tail end of 2017 / start of 2018). Now observe that the curve for 2020 has several giant bumps in it that precisely correlate with the COVID surges in both size and shape. Calculate the area between that curve and any of the previous years. Now observe that it very, very closely matches the number the CDC is reporting as "covid involved" deaths for 2020.

I did this. This is quite convincing to me that the "COVID involved" deaths are not mis-categorized and they actually are related to COVID unless CDC is straight up fabricating death numbers on a massive scale. The stories about the COVID death categorizations being overstated are pure FUD.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#429

Post by syshum »

rootusrootus wrote: post #365
bedhead wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amen. We have been so unbelievably myopic with COVID it truly hurts my head. Even today, ask someone who's COVID-obsessed, "What exactly is your longer-term plan here?" and watch as their mind breaks down. Too many people have completely stopped thinking about what they're trying to achieve and how they're going to do it. Half the country is just stuck, focused on short-term and no attention paid to anything else and…

> Half the country is just stuck, focused on short-term and no attention paid to anything else and it's freakin disastrous. Which half?

The 1/2 at the extremes ends of the Horseshoe of Politics...

The Covid Deniers, and the Authoritarian "new normal" types that believe government is our parent.

People that believe when it comes to COVID I should have no personal choice, I have to either be forced to vaxx, or the vaxx should be banned, I should be forced to mask, or the mask should be banned...

People that reject liberty in the face of emergency

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#430

Post by chana_masala »

jowday wrote: post #376
bedhead wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amen. We have been so unbelievably myopic with COVID it truly hurts my head. Even today, ask someone who's COVID-obsessed, "What exactly is your longer-term plan here?" and watch as their mind breaks down. Too many people have completely stopped thinking about what they're trying to achieve and how they're going to do it. Half the country is just stuck, focused on short-term and no attention paid to anything else and…

>Half the country is just stuck, focused on short-term and no attention paid to anything else and it's freakin disastrous. The pandemic is largely over culturally and mentally for pretty much all of the country - I'm in the middle of San Francisco and the only real remaining enforced anti-COVID measures are flashing your vaccine card before going into bars, masks inside of gyms, and masking and demasking when you ent…

Papers please hardly sounds like it's over.
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