Follow the money. That's why.
Woozy face
Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?
211–220 of 1001 posts
Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?
#212Earlier quoted context omitted.
Pretty sure you numbers are not factoring in children under the age they legally allowed to get the vaccine, because those numbers are way high if you exclude the ineligible "All Persons" is not a valid statistic >As such, we know much more about how well vaccinations protect people than we do about how well the immune systems of those who have recovered from COVID will protect from reinfection We actually do not, gi…
>Pretty sure you numbers are not factoring in children under the age they legally allowed to get the vaccine, because those numbers are way high if you exclude the ineligible A fair point. There were approximately 45,000,000 children under the age of 12 in the US in 2019[0]. I'd guess that's probably still relatively accurate. Removing those children from my calculation, there are still almost twice as many people un…
> Removing those children from my calculation, there are still almost twice as many people unvaccinated as are estimated to have contracted the virus.
Your calculation is wrong. 120 million that are unvaccinated, out of which 40 million are immune from past contraction and another 45 million are ineligible, that leaves 35 million, less than the number of people who are immune from having contracted the virus.
That of course also doesn't take into account other people who cannot take it, and the number of unconfirmed cases of immunity from having contracted the virus. I don't have any estimates for those numbers so I won't speculate on what they are besides saying that the number of unvaccinated Americans that can and need to be vaccinated is probably a lot less than 35 million.
Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?
#213Why? Probably because everyone and their uncle self-diagnosed a bad cold as COVID-19 and plenty more would lie about having natural immunity. Still I don't understand the current approach to COVID in the US. Vaccines are safe and available yet we only just approved the use in children under 12. I have heard second hand many doctors are downplaying the importance of the vaccine for people under 18. On the other hand p…
I've got a child under 12, and while everyone in my household over 12 is vaccinated, I'm not sure if the vaccine has any point for him. If you look at CDC stats, today there are only 412 reported covid19 deaths in the 0-17 age group, 138 in the 0-4 group, meaning 274 in the 4-17 group out of 670,000. Furthermore, kids rarely need treatment, so most infections go undiagnosed.
While I have no objection to a vaccine, and I don't question the efficacy of these, the trivial chance of my son's covid19 complications versus forcing him to a doctor's office over his fear of needles, which will cause him a lot of angst, makes me question whether to do it. These decisions aren't always entirely about death percentages.
Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?
#214Because it is pretty simple to account for who got the vaccine and who did not. And running entire population through antibody test just to find, in most cases, that you still need to administer the vaccine is just wasteful.
I can guarantee there was more waste in the form of billions of money lost and human productivity and lives lost from locking down the world than if we just told scared people to stay at home at the beginning of the pandemic.
If you remember, nobody wanted to be first (except China) to tell their population to stay at home.
And then they did not wait until we got rid of the virus but were quick to tell people to get out and enjoy as soon as the infection rates fell a little bit.
If you look at this algorithm, it works like a thermostat. A dumb regulator designed TO REGULATE TEMPERATURE AT A CONSTANT LEVEL. Yes, that's what the policy ensured -- that we are keeping infection rates.
Not that this is important now. We are living with consequences of these decisions and the best we could do would be to vaccinate as many people as possible as fast as possible to prevent as many unnecessary tragedies.
Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?
#215Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's only a personal choice if you do not come in contact with anyone else as best as you can. Else, you run the risk of being infected, not knowing it, passing it onto other people who "have made a personal choice", involuntary manslaughtering them (unless you're religious, then you've biblically murdered them); or, alternatively, you run the risk of ending up in the ICU, and now somebody who did get the vaccine now…
> involuntary manslaughtering them Oh please. The hyperbole is getting real old.
>and why do we have seatbelt and helmet laws?
I don't have the slightest idea. It would be like making sugar or alcohol illegal as it merely involves the person wearing the seatbelt or helmet.
Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?
#216... yeah, this is not going to be a productive comment thread. Sadly, COVID has been so politicized that I tend to say "sit down, shut up, and let the public health people drive". Even if they're wrong, they're close-enough to right to satisfy me and that's better than opening public health up to debate.
> Even if they're wrong well that's very loaded, as in, if they're wrong to the point of having long term damage to your body, then probably..don't just get it...right? albeit, we've seen no proof that this is the case at all thus far.
Here's the thing, the dilemma isn't "should I get the shot or shouldn't I get the shot".
The dilemma is "should I support the public experts even if their approach might have some minor flaws, or should I dissent and risk feeding credibility into their opponents that are prolonging this pandemic and getting innocent people killed as they clog up the hospital system".
This is a definite case where "perfect is the enemy of the good".
Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?
#217Why? Probably because everyone and their uncle self-diagnosed a bad cold as COVID-19 and plenty more would lie about having natural immunity. Still I don't understand the current approach to COVID in the US. Vaccines are safe and available yet we only just approved the use in children under 12. I have heard second hand many doctors are downplaying the importance of the vaccine for people under 18. On the other hand p…
>I have heard second hand many doctors are downplaying the importance of the vaccine for people under 18 The vaccine is not important for people under 18. Only 412 people age 17 or younger in the US have died from covid. [0] Teenage boys are six times more likely to suffer from heart problems from the vaccine than be hospitalised from Covid-19. [1] [0] https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-by-Sex... […
I'm not sure why death is the only thing we're trying to avoid. Currently, children's ICUs in Oklahoma are full in part due to the number of Covid patients. I'd rather my child not end up in the hospital, much less be turned away from one in a time of need.
Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?
#218Earlier quoted context omitted.
I mean for someone with natural immunity to get the vaccine is not going to reduce their immunity, and might boost it (or might not). So with fairly little downside, it makes sense to vaccinate them surely?
I still think everybody should be vaccinated as far as it is possible, BUT it seems that what you said might not be true. The second vaccine dose can make your natural type immunity weaker.
That is a statement that really needs some backup.
Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?
#219Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, places like NYC are creating a system of getting entry to many places only if you present government authorization. Then they can start adding more conditions to that authorization. Maybe a red state later adds not being a felon or a blue state adds not being on some red flag list. After all, you can still eat, so it's okay. They represent systems for excluding certain classes of people from society.
I'm extremely interested to see whether voting locations will start requiring proof of vaccination.
I would be interested in seeing if NYC will require the same proof of identity for voting that they do for their vax pass.
Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?
#220I'm in favor of vaccine mandates but if there was a better way of quantifying immunity I'd be all in favor of letting people with natural immunity get a waiver. As everything with COVID, the lack of hard data and the poor communication of federal and state agencies has enabled politicians, con men and sectarians to exploit the confusion to their benefit.
There is, actually, antibody test. They are quite costly however. Im my country, getting infected count as the 1rst dose (yes, i know, natural immunity is better with "real" infections, but rememeber that Covid sometime start an auto-immune disease, it's hard to test for this, so its less costly to just vaccinate people (the jab cost 12E)). No scientific response. This is mostly pragmatic, and probably politic too. I…
You can get them for free in the uk
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid...