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Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

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Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#261

Post by fidesomnes »

lame-robot-hoax wrote: post #245
beaner wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I have heard second hand many doctors are downplaying the importance of the vaccine for people under 18 The vaccine is not important for people under 18. Only 412 people age 17 or younger in the US have died from covid. [0] Teenage boys are six times more likely to suffer from heart problems from the vaccine than be hospitalised from Covid-19. [1] [0] https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-by-Sex... […

This is comparing myocarditis to hospitalizations. Where is the comparison between myocarditis induced by vaccination vs natural infection? [0] https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.23.21260998v... “Myocarditis (or pericarditis or myopericarditis) from primary COVID19 infection occurred at a rate as high as 450 per million in young males. Young males infected with the virus are up 6 times more likely to dev…

Reading comprehension is not your strong suit.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#262

Post by president »

lmilcin wrote: post #214
president wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can guarantee there was more waste in the form of billions of money lost and human productivity and lives lost from locking down the world than if we just told scared people to stay at home at the beginning of the pandemic.

If you remember, nobody wanted to be first (except China) to tell their population to stay at home. And then they did not wait until we got rid of the virus but were quick to tell people to get out and enjoy as soon as the infection rates fell a little bit. If you look at this algorithm, it works like a thermostat. A dumb regulator designed TO REGULATE TEMPERATURE AT A CONSTANT LEVEL . Yes, that's what the policy ens…

Well, that is my point. I don't think there should have ever been regulations on what you could and couldn't do. Like I mentioned, scared people can stay home and others can go out and take precautions and manage their own risk. Saying the pandemic can only end when everyone gets their shots is basically denying science especially given articles like the one posted by OP. Remember, they could end the pandemic right now if they wanted to. The pandemic designation is a human-made one.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#263

Post by suifbwish »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #232
beaner wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I have heard second hand many doctors are downplaying the importance of the vaccine for people under 18 The vaccine is not important for people under 18. Only 412 people age 17 or younger in the US have died from covid. [0] Teenage boys are six times more likely to suffer from heart problems from the vaccine than be hospitalised from Covid-19. [1] [0] https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-by-Sex... […

Kids can also be carriers, and more spread among a partially resistant population means more mutation and more variants. Vaccines are in the process of being approved for all ages.

Vaccinated individuals can also carry it. It does not stop spread or contraction. These Vaccines are just supposed to reduce the extreme Symptoms

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#264

Post by SigmundA »

bitcurious wrote: post #190
advisedwang wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean for someone with natural immunity to get the vaccine is not going to reduce their immunity, and might boost it (or might not). So with fairly little downside, it makes sense to vaccinate them surely?

The downside is that if you already have a strong immune response you will have a much harsher reaction to the vaccine, basically four days out of commission. A reaction that’s rather comparable to breakthrough COVID.

Definitely need some citation on that please.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#265

Post by bitcurious »

jpxw wrote: post #197

Pros vs cons of taking natural immunity into account: Pros: - An extremely small number of people who would get side effects now wouldn’t Cons: - Logistics: you now need to perform a blood test on every single person in the country, process the results, send out vaccine invites based on the results, and set up some system where people can prove their blood test results. None of the aforementioned components currently…

Some notes:

>Pros:

>- An extremely small number of people who would get side effects now wouldn’t

What is an 'extremely small' number? The CDC[0] states that [Headache..., Fever, Nausea] are "common." Sadly 'common' is not defined, but with >100,000,000 folks with natural immunity it's hard to imagine a definition of 'common' that squares with any reasonable definition of 'extremely small'.

>Cons:

>- Logistics: you now need to perform a blood test on every single person in the country,

For a large chunk of the population you have past positive test results. For the rest, you just need to offer the option of taking a blood test. Furthermore, the majority of the US is already vaccinated. So in just a few steps you go from "every single person" to, if you allow me to guesstimate, somewhere in the single digit percentages.

Also a missing pro:

You have a government whose vaccine policies are grounded in proper science and medical ethics, reducing the number of vaccine hesitant individuals.

[0]https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/expect/af...

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#266

Post by jowday »

pasquinelli wrote: post #253
jowday wrote: post #189

The answer is pretty simple - the moment authorities start saying "well, natural immunity is probably just as good as vaccination, we'll accept that as equal to vaccination for passport purposes", a huge segment of the population who's on the fence about getting the vaccine might just opt to wait until they're infected naturally, or, even worse, get infected purposefully (EG, chicken pox parties). Which leads to more…

hasn't it blown up in their face everytime the authorities tried to be strategic with their messaging (a nice way to say play silly games)?

Yeah, I pointed this out in my comment - I wish I could say that I think this would have all gone a lot more smoothly if authorities were just honest about things from the start, but I think a lot of the outrage about, say, Fauci lying about masks to try and conserve PPE supplies early on only provided ammo for people who were already going to disregard COVID.

At this point I’m not even sure it matters. The states with the lowest vaccination rates are never going to have vaccine passports anyways. Mentally and culturally the pandemic is over for most people, vaccinated or not.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#267

Post by dekhn »

vibrato2 wrote: post #239
lghh wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure why death is the only thing we're trying to avoid. Currently, children's ICUs in Oklahoma are full in part due to the number of Covid patients. I'd rather my child not end up in the hospital, much less be turned away from one in a time of need.

Did you miss the data point that boys are 6x more likely to be affected from the therapy than the illness?

Many of us view that claim with skepticism and prefer that the analysis of this data be left to experts who understand how misleading data can be.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#268

Post by billycorben2 »

KingMachiavelli wrote: post #155

Why? Probably because everyone and their uncle self-diagnosed a bad cold as COVID-19 and plenty more would lie about having natural immunity. Still I don't understand the current approach to COVID in the US. Vaccines are safe and available yet we only just approved the use in children under 12. I have heard second hand many doctors are downplaying the importance of the vaccine for people under 18. On the other hand p…

I am 28. A programmer with a sedentary lifestyle.

I was covid positive last October and kicked it fine (verified with a test).

I was tested 2 weeks ago for antibodies, my results were a “76” (I assume percentage?).

Why should I get vaccinated?

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#270

Post by wrl »

mactitan wrote: post #205

From this article: “When the vaccine was rolled out the goal should have been to focus on people at risk, and that should still be the focus,” says Memoli. Such risk stratification may have complicated logistics, but it would also require more nuanced messaging. “A lot of public health people have this notion that if the public is told that there’s even the slightest bit of uncertainty about a vaccine, then they won’…

That article was published on 4th December, 2020. Have the concerns expressed therein borne out in the 10 month interim?
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