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Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

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Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#251

Post by mdoms »

jonstaab wrote: post #231

First balanced take I've seen from the establishment yet, good for them. Over a year and a half of completely bizarre policy surrounding covid, I've warmed up to the idea that the West is currently in the process of importing China's brand of social-credit totalitarianism to the rest of the world. I know it sounds crazy, but if you have a little intellectual curiosity, I encourage you to listen to "LaserHodl's" case…

Yeah I'm going to go ahead and skip "LaserHodl's" opinions on this whole issue.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#252

Post by isolli »

jowday wrote: post #189

The answer is pretty simple - the moment authorities start saying "well, natural immunity is probably just as good as vaccination, we'll accept that as equal to vaccination for passport purposes", a huge segment of the population who's on the fence about getting the vaccine might just opt to wait until they're infected naturally, or, even worse, get infected purposefully (EG, chicken pox parties). Which leads to more…

While not wrong in itself, your comment epitomizes everything that has been wrong with our public health response. Trying to manipulate populations into a desired behavior by lying to them is, as you point out, counterproductive in the long run.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#253

Post by pasquinelli »

jowday wrote: post #189

The answer is pretty simple - the moment authorities start saying "well, natural immunity is probably just as good as vaccination, we'll accept that as equal to vaccination for passport purposes", a huge segment of the population who's on the fence about getting the vaccine might just opt to wait until they're infected naturally, or, even worse, get infected purposefully (EG, chicken pox parties). Which leads to more…

hasn't it blown up in their face everytime the authorities tried to be strategic with their messaging (a nice way to say play silly games)?

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#254

Post by rdtsc »

ttul wrote: post #169
ttul wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely not the case. Children should be vaccinated. The Israeli study was useful in establishing that infection results in immunity. That’s it. It does not establish that infection is lower risk than vaccination. Children are at low risk from COVIS

Pushed reply too soon. Children are at low risk, but not no risk. To the extent that kids are running around with infections, they’re transmitting virus to others and providing a reservoir for mutation. That is not productive. Let’s get the kids vaccinated. It’s the cheapest way out of this thing.

> To the extent that kids are running around with infections, they’re transmitting virus to others and providing a reservoir for mutation

Can make the same argument for the vaccinated people. Vaccines don’t prevent infection, they reduce symptoms. So by same logic they run around with the infection spreading it to everyone.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#255

Post by babesh »

Internal politics.

The pseudo left power structure wants to use covid to increase their power by training/compelling people to comply and by using the right outrage to rile their base.

The right reflexively acts against whatever the left does. So they are reflexively against vaccines.

The people in power are mostly just hypocrites who are in it for the power and manipulate the masses to amass power.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#256

Post by lapetitejort »

trhway wrote: post #203
jpxw wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that it’s a personal choice doesn’t mean that both choices are equally correct. IMHO, unless you’re a hermit, and excluding certain other extremely rare edge cases, the only moral choice is taking it.

>the only moral choice is taking it. And walking around after that still spreading the virus because you wouldn't feel the symptoms. The vaccinated people look to be the main source of infection these days.

Which is why in high infection areas, the vaccinated should still be wearing masks.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#257

Post by jonstaab »

mdoms wrote: post #251
jonstaab wrote: post #231

First balanced take I've seen from the establishment yet, good for them. Over a year and a half of completely bizarre policy surrounding covid, I've warmed up to the idea that the West is currently in the process of importing China's brand of social-credit totalitarianism to the rest of the world. I know it sounds crazy, but if you have a little intellectual curiosity, I encourage you to listen to "LaserHodl's" case…

Yeah I'm going to go ahead and skip "LaserHodl's" opinions on this whole issue.

Did I not hedge enough? Two years ago I was a happy, contented liberal raising a family and working at my job. I still am, but I believe some quite different things about what is happening in the world, which old me would have dismissed out of hand.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#258

Post by jpxw »

trhway wrote: post #203
jpxw wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that it’s a personal choice doesn’t mean that both choices are equally correct. IMHO, unless you’re a hermit, and excluding certain other extremely rare edge cases, the only moral choice is taking it.

>the only moral choice is taking it. And walking around after that still spreading the virus because you wouldn't feel the symptoms. The vaccinated people look to be the main source of infection these days.

Vaccinated people are way less likely to get infected.

And I don’t think there’s any evidence that vaccinated people have higher viral loads with less symptoms - that would be extremely surprising if true. I understand that vaccinated people can have high viral loads in breakout cases, but presumably in those cases they’re symptomatic - I don’t recall seeing any analysis of this.

Please feel free to prove me wrong.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#259

Post by lotsofpulp »

Mikealcl wrote: post #227
oppositelock wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've got a child under 12, and while everyone in my household over 12 is vaccinated, I'm not sure if the vaccine has any point for him. If you look at CDC stats, today there are only 412 reported covid19 deaths in the 0-17 age group, 138 in the 0-4 group, meaning 274 in the 4-17 group out of 670,000. Furthermore, kids rarely need treatment, so most infections go undiagnosed. While I have no objection to a vaccine, an…

Not sure how accurate that is based on the children’s hospitals in the southern United States being at capacity from COVID. Long symptoms have also become an issue in children.

>Long symptoms have also become an issue in children.

Source?

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#260

Post by Auracle »

danaris wrote: post #76
lithos wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The president would not be in the news if they acted reasonably and tried to work across party lines. There’s always going to be someone more extreme, louder, and obnoxious that will sell more ad views along with supporting whatever pet narrative the publication wants.

"Trying to work across party lines" went out the window when the Republicans decided that "prevent absolutely anything the Democrats want to do, no matter how objectively beneficial it would be or whether it was fully supported by Republicans in the past" was a viable and acceptable method of getting re-elected.

“If the public-health professionals, if Dr. Fauci, if the doctors tell us that we should take it, I'll be the first in line to take it — absolutely," the California senator said during the first and only vice-presidential debate.

"But if Donald Trump tells us we should take it, I'm not taking it." -Kamala Harris

Let’s not act like both parties don’t do the exact same thing, eh?

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