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Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

bmj.com

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Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#161

Post by ttul »

cblconfederate wrote: post #121
darthvoldemort wrote: post #21

A recent study from Israel said that natural immunity is an order of magnitude better than vaccine-induced immunity against delta variant. I don't know who to believe, but if that's the case, then the narrative of "well they should get vaccinated anyway" is really freaking suspicious. We need deeper research on this, and the fact that they haven't researched this is truly scary.

13 times actually https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v... I think this will be more relevant to vaccinating kids: If this result holds for kids as well, and considering that Covid is not dangerous for kids, maybe kids are better off getting covid

Absolutely not the case. Children should be vaccinated. The Israeli study was useful in establishing that infection results in immunity. That’s it. It does not establish that infection is lower risk than vaccination.

Children are at low risk from COVIS

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#162

Post by morsch »

darthvoldemort wrote: post #21

A recent study from Israel said that natural immunity is an order of magnitude better than vaccine-induced immunity against delta variant. I don't know who to believe, but if that's the case, then the narrative of "well they should get vaccinated anyway" is really freaking suspicious. We need deeper research on this, and the fact that they haven't researched this is truly scary.

Same study came to the result that getting a shot after surviving an infection (unvaccinated) gives even better protection. The real interesting comparison would be immunity after getting a breakthrough infection compared to other kinds of acquired immunity. I'm sure we'll get that study eventually.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v...

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#164

Post by lp0_on_fire »

DiabloD3 wrote: post #147
stronglikedan wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or don't. It's a personal choice.

It's only a personal choice if you do not come in contact with anyone else as best as you can. Else, you run the risk of being infected, not knowing it, passing it onto other people who "have made a personal choice", involuntary manslaughtering them (unless you're religious, then you've biblically murdered them); or, alternatively, you run the risk of ending up in the ICU, and now somebody who did get the vaccine now…

> involuntary manslaughtering them

Oh please. The hyperbole is getting real old.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#165

Post by isolli »

jjeaff wrote: post #120
darthvoldemort wrote: post #21

A recent study from Israel said that natural immunity is an order of magnitude better than vaccine-induced immunity against delta variant. I don't know who to believe, but if that's the case, then the narrative of "well they should get vaccinated anyway" is really freaking suspicious. We need deeper research on this, and the fact that they haven't researched this is truly scary.

I think the biggest issue is that a lot of people think they had covid previously but didn't get tested so they don't really know. I thought I had covid early in the pandemic. Took a serology test and found out that I had not had it. I suspect a lot of people that think they had it are the same.

Except that antibodies don’t tell the whole story. They may wane after a while, but the immune system is primed to fight off the virus at the next infection thanks to memory B cells and T cells.

Unfortunately, T-cell tests are not available in Europe, and apparently not reliable in the US. Which confirms the original point: there seems to be little interest in detecting previous infections.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#166

Post by jakemoshenko »

KingMachiavelli wrote: post #155

Why? Probably because everyone and their uncle self-diagnosed a bad cold as COVID-19 and plenty more would lie about having natural immunity. Still I don't understand the current approach to COVID in the US. Vaccines are safe and available yet we only just approved the use in children under 12. I have heard second hand many doctors are downplaying the importance of the vaccine for people under 18. On the other hand p…

Slight correction: vaccines are still not available to children under 12.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#167

Post by pigeonhole123 »

bigcorp-slave wrote: post #134
Pxtl wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume the proposal is that the vaccine card would be a de-facto immunity card, where a test showing a high antibody count would still be logged on your card as an alternative to the vaccine. But the devil's in the details anyways. How long would that be considered good for, since we'll probably be looking at regular annual boosters? Would extremist anti-vaxxers have a perverse incentive to get infected so as to re…

I’d support an immunity card with the same audit trail for antibody test. I think most people would - general common sense suggests that natural infection should be effective. How long it lasts, I guess we’ll need to study that. Honestly the problem here is not the science. It’s the big clump of people who have turned being against the science into a part of their identity. Every time I think we have hit the bottom a…

Maybe you should question that conclusion when as you said people you respect are questioning what’s going on? I don’t know how to better put it but if the science requires unquestioning obedience to an already decided conclusion then maybe it isn’t science. I’m European and I’m outside that republican thing for the record, just in case that matters to you.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#168

Post by cblconfederate »

stefan_ wrote: post #139
cblconfederate wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

13 times actually https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v... I think this will be more relevant to vaccinating kids: If this result holds for kids as well, and considering that Covid is not dangerous for kids, maybe kids are better off getting covid

No, of course they are not, hence why we are vaccinating them. This is fud. (Is this the dumbest argument yet? "If you just get COVID, you will have the best protection against COVID!"? I take it the dead people have the best protection to offer yet?)

The UK vaccine advisory board is not recommending vaccinating teens 12-15, on account that they dont benefit much

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#169

Post by ttul »

ttul wrote: post #161
cblconfederate wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

13 times actually https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v... I think this will be more relevant to vaccinating kids: If this result holds for kids as well, and considering that Covid is not dangerous for kids, maybe kids are better off getting covid

Absolutely not the case. Children should be vaccinated. The Israeli study was useful in establishing that infection results in immunity. That’s it. It does not establish that infection is lower risk than vaccination. Children are at low risk from COVIS

Pushed reply too soon. Children are at low risk, but not no risk. To the extent that kids are running around with infections, they’re transmitting virus to others and providing a reservoir for mutation. That is not productive.

Let’s get the kids vaccinated. It’s the cheapest way out of this thing.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#170

Post by nanis »

lmilcin wrote: post #136

Because it is pretty simple to account for who got the vaccine and who did not. And running entire population through antibody test just to find, in most cases, that you still need to administer the vaccine is just wasteful.

> running entire population through antibody test just to find

A red herring if I have ever seen one. Assuming for a moment the premise that one must be forced to establish their immunity to a particular disease before being allowed to leave their homes, all that would be required would be to allow individuals who believe they've had COVID-19 and do not wish to get the vaccine to be able use their test results as proof instead of having to show a vaccine card.

Note, this does NOT require some authority forcing the entire population take specific tests.

But, the point of these vax passes is for all the authoritarian OCD afflicted Munchausen-by-proxy patients to demonstrate that they can force their preferences on everyone else just like it was the case with masks, distancing, no school, lockdown, etc.

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