Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

bmj.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 1001 posts

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#111

Post by bigcorp-slave »

collegeburner wrote: post #35
poorjohnmacafee wrote: post #10

> US CDC estimates that SARS-CoV-2 has infected more than 100 million Americans That's probably why it doesn't count? Would clearly cut into the profit lines of big pharma. If you're extra skeptical, you could also argue Western governments are finding opportunities to accustom their citizens to more top down government intrusions into their lives, e.g. shifting towards a citizen management model that's used today by…

Yes, places like NYC are creating a system of getting entry to many places only if you present government authorization. Then they can start adding more conditions to that authorization. Maybe a red state later adds not being a felon or a blue state adds not being on some red flag list. After all, you can still eat, so it's okay. They represent systems for excluding certain classes of people from society.

Yeah, it’s really horrible when I have to show my age passport to get served a beer, too.

Edit: moreover, the party that wants fewer restrictions on voting is the same as the party that wants people to get vaccinated. And the party that is desperately trying to stop as many people from voting as possible is also very pro-disease. So this seems like a pretty unlikely scenario.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#112

Post by cybernautique »

rootusrootus wrote: post #53
_red wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Anecdotally, I know someone who has been infected twice How does he know he was infected twice? Saying that a PCR test returned positive values two times isn't a great answer - since by its nature PCR is only counting the existence (above the programmed threshold post amplification). Serology is the only way to know for certain you were/are infected. This highlights one of the bigger issues we have: PCR test are a v…

PCR. About 9 months apart.

Out of curiosity, couldn't this patient have experienced a case of long-haul covid?

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#113

Post by triceratops »

leifg wrote: post #15

The argument seems fine to me. Let people with natural immunity have the same privileges as vaccinated people assuming they have a piece of paper from a federal entity to prove it. The only argument I can think of against it is: Certain vaccine skeptic people might be incentivized to catch the virus on purpose.

> The only argument I can think of against it is: Certain vaccine skeptic people might be incentivized to catch the virus on purpose.

I think that's a pretty important argument against allowing natural immunity in lieu of vaccination. A lot of people will go and deliberately infect themselves. Some of them will die. They will spread it to others. Many will tie up ICU beds, doctors, nurses and other hospital resources, causing tons of first- and second-order harm.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#114

Post by handmodel »

darthvoldemort wrote: post #21

A recent study from Israel said that natural immunity is an order of magnitude better than vaccine-induced immunity against delta variant. I don't know who to believe, but if that's the case, then the narrative of "well they should get vaccinated anyway" is really freaking suspicious. We need deeper research on this, and the fact that they haven't researched this is truly scary.

There's no evidence that having the vaccine stops you from developing natural immunity if you have a breakthrough.

If the vaccine fails you then you will get covid (like you would have in the same situation without vaccine) and will develop natural immunity then.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#115

Post by peteradio »

dang wrote: post #95
criticaltinker wrote: post #54

Why is this post flagged? And why is the vouch button unavailable?

It was flagged because users flagged it. This is in the FAQ: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html .

Thanks dang. Will this then possibly be flagged by some other user? What is the visibility of a flagged post? Hidden from front page and search, viewable from other users comments?

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#116

Post by amalcon »

WillPostForFood wrote: post #99
amalcon wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we actually believe that "big pharma" (in the form of 3 companies that make US approved vaccines) have greater influence than all of the collective industries that would benefit from a looser mandate (so long as the public trusted it)? Pharma is more influential than the entire service sector , plus most manufacturing, and anything else that functionally requires people to be in the same room? If you believe they…

Do we actually believe that "big pharma" (in the form of 3 companies that make US approved vaccines) have greater influence than all of the collective industries They only need more influence in key places like FDA and CDC, not more influence overall, to push health policies.

The FDA and CDC are not involved in vaccine mandates. Even the coming federal mandate is through OSHA. They issue recommendations, but so do a lot of other influential people and organizations.

That said, this is a real phenomenon and worth bearing in mind when doing this type of reasoning.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#117

Post by pbaka »

petre wrote: post #55
darthvoldemort wrote: post #21

A recent study from Israel said that natural immunity is an order of magnitude better than vaccine-induced immunity against delta variant. I don't know who to believe, but if that's the case, then the narrative of "well they should get vaccinated anyway" is really freaking suspicious. We need deeper research on this, and the fact that they haven't researched this is truly scary.

Do take an antibody test and decide for yourself. How can one make decisions without any metric?

I think the point of the policies is you shouldn't. It's like in the army : don't think, we've done the thinking for you.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#118

Post by Pxtl »

bigcorp-slave wrote: post #107
darthvoldemort wrote: post #21

A recent study from Israel said that natural immunity is an order of magnitude better than vaccine-induced immunity against delta variant. I don't know who to believe, but if that's the case, then the narrative of "well they should get vaccinated anyway" is really freaking suspicious. We need deeper research on this, and the fact that they haven't researched this is truly scary.

It is not a conspiracy to vaccinate more people. The lens you are missing is that the vaccine card is at least somewhat difficult to forge. You can trace the lot number and say, did this person get this dose. But with previous infection, there is a huge camp of people who are just going to lie about it and continue spreading the virus freely. People have shown that they cannot be trusted to act responsibly.

I assume the proposal is that the vaccine card would be a de-facto immunity card, where a test showing a high antibody count would still be logged on your card as an alternative to the vaccine.

But the devil's in the details anyways. How long would that be considered good for, since we'll probably be looking at regular annual boosters? Would extremist anti-vaxxers have a perverse incentive to get infected so as to rejoin society while avoiding the vaccine?

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#119

Post by sprafa »

rscho wrote: post #100
timr wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The current data suggests that's true, which is why it counts in other countries, and the US stance is seen as anomalous.

It doesn't count in at least Switzerland, and I believe all through western Europe as well...

You're wrong.

The EU digital certificate is for - you had the vaccine - you had a negative result - you recovered from the virus.

Recovering from the virus gives you 180 days of certification. https://www.sns24.gov.pt/guia/certificado-digital-covid-da-u...

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#120

Post by jjeaff »

darthvoldemort wrote: post #21

A recent study from Israel said that natural immunity is an order of magnitude better than vaccine-induced immunity against delta variant. I don't know who to believe, but if that's the case, then the narrative of "well they should get vaccinated anyway" is really freaking suspicious. We need deeper research on this, and the fact that they haven't researched this is truly scary.

I think the biggest issue is that a lot of people think they had covid previously but didn't get tested so they don't really know.

I thought I had covid early in the pandemic. Took a serology test and found out that I had not had it. I suspect a lot of people that think they had it are the same.

Post reply on HN