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Arm China Has Gone Rogue

semianalysis.substack.com

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Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#391

Post by torstenvl »

Dotnaught wrote: post #335
torstenvl wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have war already. It just isn't a very hot one.

There are better words for a conflict that's not currently active warfare. The US and China can disagree and take action that isn't mutually beneficial without it being a war. How we talk about things reflects how we think about them and limits the solutions we consider.

None of which changes the fact that there is a war. Not only are the two nations still involved on opposite sides of the Korean War, which has never concluded, but China routinely scrambled fighters and bombers to harass U.S. ships in international waters.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/us-militarys-close-calls-chi...

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/7/12/china-military-drov...

https://www.businessinsider.com/chinese-planes-conducted-sim...

https://www.amazon.com/New-Rules-War-Victory-Disorder/dp/006...

There are armed confrontations between the militaries of these two countries on a constant basis. There just hasn't been any shooting yet.

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#392

Post by angelzen »

ayngg wrote: post #58
rayiner wrote: post #44

Western executives are in over their heads dealing with China. I don't think they even realized who was holding their leashes until China decided to start yanking on them a bit.

Western executives only care about getting paid, they don't need to care about geopolitics because they will have already offloaded their responsibilities before it matters.

The ultimate Western executive status symbol is NZ citizenship. Nero vibes.

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#393

Post by evancox100 »

I’m not saying this development is good, but didn’t ARM UK / SoftBank lose control of ARM China 3 years ago when they sold 51% of it and became a minority shareholder? Not being in control comes along with the minority shareholder status. The fact that ARM China CEO refused to step down is kind of irrelevant, the remaining 51% shareholders could just replace the board with whomever and install whomever they want as CEO. While this would require a unanimous vote by the other shareholders, I think it is just a technicality that this hasn’t already happened.

Still, you have to wonder if ARM China is still sending SoftBank 49% of the profits! Or if they’re just like “what profits”. This whole saga with the corporate seals and everything is hilarious. Actually giving the JV access to the RTL (== keys to the kingdom) has to be the dumbest move ever.

Also, goes without saying that none of this happens without the implicit consent of the CPC.

Disclaimer: opinions my own.

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#394

Post by markus_zhang »

yodsanklai wrote: post #193
cletus wrote: post #91

People need to wake up to the fact that China being a potential market of >1B people is an illusion. This is particularly relevant for any tech company. Let me spell it out: Chinese companies are extensions of the state. They are tools of Chinese foreign and trade policy. What cooperation you think US companies provide the US government, it is nothing in comparison. The Chinese government will ensure that no Western…

Naive question here: why China is able to close its market to foreign companies? Same thing for trade sanctions on Iran which impacted European companies but not China (if I'm not wrong). Seems they don't play by the same rules as anybody else.

> why China is able to close its market to foreign companies?

It is not though, many foreign companies do business in China. Even Facebook and Google retain part of their Ad business.

> Same thing for trade sanctions on Iran which impacted European companies but not China (if I'm not wrong). Seems they don't play by the same rules as anybody else.

First, EU doesn't like the idea that US sanctioned their companies because of Iran oil, that's why they rolled out some law that protect against it recently. Second, it's just US (and part of other western countries' as they have to eat it) rule, regarding the Iran oil example. China is not playing by that rule simply because so far there is not enough push from US.

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#395

Post by dylan522p »

klelatti wrote: post #246
monocasa wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As dylan522p is saying, it depends very heavily on the actual agreement. Which unfortunately isn't public and has historically been very different in each case so we can't even look at similar agreements for guidance. That being said, it wouldn't be totally out there for a clause in the agreement that doesn't allow export of chips with this IP, and that would probably be enforced as ITO judgements allowing seizing ch…

dylan522p says above: > Chips themselves can be sold, yes. The IP cannot be licensed to non Chinese based semi firms. I'd be astonished if licenses to Chinese SoC designers prevented products with those SoC's being sold outside China. So RockChip, Spreadtrum etc would be cut off from the rest of the world? Or forced to license separately with Arm UK for chips for products that are to be exported? Seems very unlikely.…

They are allowed to sell chips outside of china with Arm IP licensed from Arm China

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#397

Post by evancox100 »

fnord77 wrote: post #181
barrkel wrote: post #5

This is the standard Chinese operating model, as I understand it. Accept foreign subsidiary investment on condition of 51% Chinese ownership, transfer the technology, then turn around and compete with the parent. It was a similar story with maglev trains.

so, the Tesla subsidiary in china is 51% chinese owned?

No actually, I think Tesla is one of the few foreign companies who has been able to operate there without the JV requirement.

Edit: backing this up with a link https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/greggardne...

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#398

Post by redtexture »

civilized wrote: post #387

China has been doing this for, what, 30-40 years now? How is this news? It is astonishing to me how many people have been, apparently, sleeping under a rock for decades, and are just now announcing their bitter realizations that China is not a free market open to Western companies. Hillary Clinton did one of these announcements within the past year or so, and my eyes rolled right out of the back of my head.

Photo of back of head desired.

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#399

Post by colinmhayes »

evancox100 wrote: post #393

I’m not saying this development is good, but didn’t ARM UK / SoftBank lose control of ARM China 3 years ago when they sold 51% of it and became a minority shareholder? Not being in control comes along with the minority shareholder status. The fact that ARM China CEO refused to step down is kind of irrelevant, the remaining 51% shareholders could just replace the board with whomever and install whomever they want as C…

The entire board voted with SoftBank to kick this dude out. He literally refuses to step down. There would have to be a lengthy court battle which the board doesn't want.

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#400

Post by thesausageking »

fnord77 wrote: post #181
barrkel wrote: post #5

This is the standard Chinese operating model, as I understand it. Accept foreign subsidiary investment on condition of 51% Chinese ownership, transfer the technology, then turn around and compete with the parent. It was a similar story with maglev trains.

so, the Tesla subsidiary in china is 51% chinese owned?

Yes. All companies that operate in China have to be 51% domestically owned. Often they're setup so the parent company keeps all of the IP but as the Arm situation shows, that only gives the parent so much power.
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