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Arm China Has Gone Rogue

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241–250 of 686 posts

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#241

Diversity happened. Civic nationalism empirically doesn't work [1]. Societies need some level of individual sacrifice for the group to prosper over the long term, and diversity kills the impulse to do that. Favoring the ingroup over the outgroup is a stable state for groups, starting from ants and ending with humans. Trying to eradicate those impulses was perhaps noble, but ended in utter failure. Hapless attempts at…

[deleted]

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#242
post #190

The PRC isn’t fucking around. They’re playing for the whole show and the West is bringing a significantly weaker game than it did against a significantly dumber geopolitical adversary last time. Being England or whatever isn’t the end of the world, there is life after global hegemony, but e.g. the USA should be realistic about the fact that e.g. shit like a legislature whose job is to get nothing done isn’t how you w…

The West and Americans (in my experience) take for granted that civil rights, free speech, democracy, and other values automatically create better outcomes than authoritarianism. This is how it was taught to me, and it seems baked into the culture. Unfortunately, the reality is that while (in my opinion) liberal values create better outcomes, it takes care and concerted effort to get the benefits. A democracy isn't a…

Some of what you mention is indeed true, but some of it is selective. The US is truly a union, and one that is increasingly heterogenous.

The US higher education system is the best in the world, which is why you will see wealthy Chinese send their kids to the US (or Oxbridge). The high school system is very mixed, as half the union runs around trying to convince the world that math is racist (no joke).

I’ve lived in China. You’re not likely to see the next SpaceX emerge from there for all the reasons you mention. It’s an economy that is tuned to replicating/copying. But this is so culturally enshrined now that I cannot fathom the emergence of the Sino version of the American Dream.

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#243
post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Sucked ass if you were a minority This is just propaganda from minority groups. For the vast majority of non-immigrant minorities, life has been reliably excellent.

We put ethnic Japanese in concentration camps after stealing away every bit of wealth they accumulated. White women have only been able to vote for 100 years. Some black women half that. American Indians were driven off their land.

This subthread is about the latter 20th century. The 1990s were more relaxed racially than we are now, thanks to the outrage industry.

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#245

The PRC isn’t fucking around. They’re playing for the whole show and the West is bringing a significantly weaker game than it did against a significantly dumber geopolitical adversary last time. Being England or whatever isn’t the end of the world, there is life after global hegemony, but e.g. the USA should be realistic about the fact that e.g. shit like a legislature whose job is to get nothing done isn’t how you w…

I find it more than a little disturbing that most of the interest in this comment centers on people trying to refute what amounts to a parenthetical that while a lot of things were looking pretty awesome in 1960 in e.g. the US, being black or gay probably weren’t among them.

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are not counterfeit goods though. Where has the law been broken in a way that gives Arm the power to act? Probably IP licensed under Chinese law and Arm China will probably get its way in Chinese courts.

As dylan522p is saying, it depends very heavily on the actual agreement. Which unfortunately isn't public and has historically been very different in each case so we can't even look at similar agreements for guidance. That being said, it wouldn't be totally out there for a clause in the agreement that doesn't allow export of chips with this IP, and that would probably be enforced as ITO judgements allowing seizing ch…

dylan522p says above:

> Chips themselves can be sold, yes. The IP cannot be licensed to non Chinese based semi firms.

I'd be astonished if licenses to Chinese SoC designers prevented products with those SoC's being sold outside China. So RockChip, Spreadtrum etc would be cut off from the rest of the world? Or forced to license separately with Arm UK for chips for products that are to be exported? Seems very unlikely.

Plus I'd expect we'd have seen action taken already if they really had broken the terms of the licensing.

Agreed that we're all speculating to some extent though!

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#247

The PRC isn’t fucking around. They’re playing for the whole show and the West is bringing a significantly weaker game than it did against a significantly dumber geopolitical adversary last time. Being England or whatever isn’t the end of the world, there is life after global hegemony, but e.g. the USA should be realistic about the fact that e.g. shit like a legislature whose job is to get nothing done isn’t how you w…

I find it more than a little disturbing that most of the interest in this comment centers on people trying to refute what amounts to a parenthetical that while a lot of things were looking pretty awesome in 1960 in e.g. the US, being black or gay probably weren’t among them.

Being black or gay in the west was better than being black or gay in any other part of the world. There are still countries where homosexuality is punishable by death. Being black or gay in the US in the 1960s was worse than being white and straight in the 1960s, but my precise point in my sibling comment is that this a stupid criticism because the West was pioneering equality.

There seems to be some widely-held superstition that if we acknowledge Western progress, then we will stop progressing.

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Naive question here: why China is able to close its market to foreign companies? Same thing for trade sanctions on Iran which impacted European companies but not China (if I'm not wrong). Seems they don't play by the same rules as anybody else.

> why China is able to close its market to foreign companies? Because we assumed that prosperity would lead to liberal democracy. That underwrote complacency while profit motivations took root.

Or that capitalism was an inextricable part of democracy, and bringing the former would inevitably lead to the latter.

A quite foolish assumption given the 20th century counterexamples of capitalism + authoritarianism - Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, Imperial Japan.

In the 90s, Wall St. and corporate America bankrolled the largest ever lobbying campaign to open US markets and the WTO to China, and got it by 2000.

Just two decades later and the result is massive inequality, a decimated middle class, vulnerable supply supply chains, and rising authoritarianism again.

The US has stupidly snatched defeat from the jaws of victory in the Cold War.

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#250
post #190

The PRC isn’t fucking around. They’re playing for the whole show and the West is bringing a significantly weaker game than it did against a significantly dumber geopolitical adversary last time. Being England or whatever isn’t the end of the world, there is life after global hegemony, but e.g. the USA should be realistic about the fact that e.g. shit like a legislature whose job is to get nothing done isn’t how you w…

The West and Americans (in my experience) take for granted that civil rights, free speech, democracy, and other values automatically create better outcomes than authoritarianism. This is how it was taught to me, and it seems baked into the culture. Unfortunately, the reality is that while (in my opinion) liberal values create better outcomes, it takes care and concerted effort to get the benefits. A democracy isn't a…

China also has some unique ineffective areas. One example I ran into a little while ago was that China has essentially a review board that approves video games to be distributed to the Chinese market. A particular political backdoor to expedite the approval process was exposed, which quickly lead to an extreme backup of the approval queue as the party clamped down on that backdoor and made the entire video game industry wait several months to a year for them to get their ducks back in a row.

Additionally, if you want to publish in China, it is advisable (although I don't think strictly required... yet...) that you provide some way to block any messages in your game that the party disapproves of. For some sorts of games, this is basically untenable.

Essentially, China is effective where its policy of iron-handed top-down dictatorship is effective. It is less effective at bottom-up development, except insofar as that bottom-up development is done with the express intent of being a tool of the iron hand (but the iron hand's whims can change, so that presents a moving target).

I suspect what we'll see over the next hundred-or-so years is that the iron-handed approach is effective while it has intelligent leadership (and though I disagree with China's politics, I'll concede they're making strong strategic decisions). Inevitably, though, every empire has stupid emperors and we'll probably see China stumble when its turn comes.

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