NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings • Hacker News Board

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#941

Post by refurb » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 10:45 AM UTC

eropple wrote: post #71

AndrewBissell wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you drawing a comparison between requiring vaccinations (with 30+ year safety records) against measles and polio, for children to attend public school, with requiring vaccinations (with no long-term safety data whatsoever) against Covid for people to go to public establishments? Did you ever need proof of a polio vaccine to get into Equinox?

Hi! Thanks for asking! I very much am drawing that comparison, because there is literally no--and I mean that, literally no --evidence from a credible source to suggest that the possibility exists in terms of actual pathways to a long-term problem. Should that evidence be forthcoming from sources with a credible tether to reality, I will re-evaluate my position, but unlike so many of the fearful types who insist one…

literally no--evidence from a credible source to suggest that the possibility exists in terms of actual pathways to a long-term problem.

As someone who works in drug development, the FDA would laugh you out of the room if you said this. Nobody gives a shit what your theories are. Drugs are approved based on hard data, not theories and handwaving about what could or couldn't go wrong. Way too many drugs have been pulled off the market for reasons nobody could predict.

Bextra, a COX-2 inhibitor used for arthritis, was approved in 2001 and wasn't withdrawn until 2005 when it was found to increase the risk of heart attacks. It took 4 years and millions of people dosed before they found that long-term effect.

Now, I'm not saying people shouldn't get vaccinated against. I'm vaccinated. But playing it off like the risk of long-term complications is zero is just foolish.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#942

Post by refurb » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 10:56 AM UTC

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #17

alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

> You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? As someone who is vaccinated, I'm frankly tired of wearing masks, and I don't feel I should have to wear one to protect someone else who is refusing a vaccine.

How do you feel about your tax dollars paying for the care of someone who just had their leg amputated because they refused to control their type II diabetes?

Or someone who has decided that a short life as an alcoholic was preferable to being sober and will need all sorts of medical intervention?

Or someone who participates in extreme sports and now need their back fused because of multiple injuries?

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#943

Post by salamandersauce » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 11:20 AM UTC

mlang23 wrote: post #723

timr wrote: post #659

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we should have. Tolerating disease spread and threats to vulnerable populations when vaccines are available that are practically risk-free (or the risk being magnitudes smaller than the payoff) is ridiculous. Maybe this finally shakes people awake and puts public health and safety to the top of the agenda rather than people throwing tantrums like children about government incursion. You can certainly go down this p…

Thanks for having the courage to write this. I couldnt agree more. I find the risk assessment argument of the thread parent really twisted. Younger people effectively have no risk of dying from covid. Elderly have. And now, the left is trying to force everyone to vaccinate, no matter how good or bad their immune system might be. This world has become a place I actually really dont want to live in. If this trend reall…

Jesus christ. Did you go to public school? In most cases vaccinations for common diseases is required to attend. Vaccines save lives, is very little burden to you especially if you "have a good immune system". The faster we get everyone vaccinated the faster we get rid of the need of masks and restrictions. It's morons like you elongating things.

If you get on that ventilatior you won't be thinking you made the right choice. You'll be wishing you took the vaccine like so many stories we see today. What an idiotic hill to die on.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#944

Post by SergeAx » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 11:54 AM UTC

rgarrett88 wrote: post #590

SergeAx wrote: post #570

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotal case: I got covid this January, quite symptomatic, full anosmia, high fever and about 20% of lungs damaged. Since then I contacted freshly infected people at least twice. Both of them became sick 1-2 days after contact, one with proved Delta variant. In both cases I self-quarantined and get mild symptoms for 2-3 days: light fever, partial anosmia. Both time I got significant increase of IgG antibodies. So I…

We know now that vaccination status and even natural immunity is not stopping people from virus transmission, so this argument is off the table. We've always known that some percent of those vaccinated will transmit the virus. The vaccine's effectiveness is not 100%. The point, among other reasons, is it reduces transmission.

The point is not in vaccine efficacy. Even healthy individual may have virus in airways an be contagious, no matter being vaccinated or naturally immune.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#945

Post by ashtonkem » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 12:04 PM UTC

Some of the comments in here about the vaccine and the pandemic are shocking to me. I guess I was wrong, we have become a society of selfish and narcissistic people.

I guess this pandemic will go on forever.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#946

Post by ashtonkem » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 12:09 PM UTC

tboyd47 wrote: post #5

mandmandam wrote: post #2

Privacy watchdogs, data protection groups, and human rights councils have largely condemned these "vaccine passports". To date, I haven't seen their concerns mentioned - mentioned - in any of these pronouncements. I get that there are enough people willing to go along with this that they'll likely stick around for a bit - but another thing I haven't seen is an end game. Corona is in the deer, it's in pets. Are they a…

It seems that the endgame is to keep on pushing tighter and tighter restrictions on certain communities of people, strongly discouraging open debate, leaving dissenters no other option but to physically remove themselves, until only the most compliant remain, forming a tight-knit, ideologically homogenous group.

It’s distressing how such paranoid conspiracy theory mongering is just now accepted even here.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#947

Post by ashtonkem » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 12:13 PM UTC

mostertoaster wrote: post #631

Surviving is not the same thing as living just as noise is not the same thing as music. People have lost their minds over covid and act in ways that they would have said were insane probably five years ago. A bunch of younger people at very little risk of getting horribly sick, are demanding that everyone get vaccinated wear masks and want life to be miserable even though it is older people who are saying I’d rather…

> I might get one dose of the vaccine, just so I can not be part of either side of this crazy debate.

What a silly way to make health decisions.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#948

Post by apostacy » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 12:35 PM UTC

Barrin92 wrote: post #553

timr wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am pro-vaccine (and fully vaccinated), but I don't support this policy at all. I don't believe this will have much of a net effect on vaccination rate, I believe it will disproportionately negatively impact poor and minority populations in NYC who already have a bad/mistrustful relationship with health care and government, and it is obviously a huge new governmental intrusion into our daily lives. It might well lea…

> if you are fully vaccinated, you are at essentially no risk of serious illness from SARS-CoV2. Terrible first order logic. The threat from the virus is not only immediate risk to the individual, it is also further transmissions increasing the risk of creating new breakthrough variants. Every infected person is a gamble that risks nullifying the effectiveness of vaccines, so the goal must be to bring down infections…

Ask yourself if you would be ok submitting your photo ID, proof of citizenship, and phone's unique ID in any of the settings that the mandate will cover.

Do you honestly think they will dismantle it one day? Especially if Apple is making it so easy for them.

For the record, no I don't think I should have to present my ID to get a Metrocard or ride a train. I do think that is oppressive. Because by that point they will have intruded into our lives way too much.

NY state has been encroaching for years. They have been fantasizing about a "no ride" list for Amtrak.

And many officials have invited the TSA and ICE to set up surprise mobile checkpoints for commuters at bus terminals.

All under the justification of protecting us from terrorism.

This is just the thin edge of a wedge to expand their control over us. And yes, most of them do want more power and money, and our civil liberties stand in the way of that.

[1]: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/train-security-is-a-no-ride-lis... [2]: https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/06/tsa-swarms-8000...

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#949

Post by disgruntledphd2 » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 12:42 PM UTC

mlang23 wrote: post #723

timr wrote: post #659

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we should have. Tolerating disease spread and threats to vulnerable populations when vaccines are available that are practically risk-free (or the risk being magnitudes smaller than the payoff) is ridiculous. Maybe this finally shakes people awake and puts public health and safety to the top of the agenda rather than people throwing tantrums like children about government incursion. You can certainly go down this p…

Thanks for having the courage to write this. I couldnt agree more. I find the risk assessment argument of the thread parent really twisted. Younger people effectively have no risk of dying from covid. Elderly have. And now, the left is trying to force everyone to vaccinate, no matter how good or bad their immune system might be. This world has become a place I actually really dont want to live in. If this trend reall…

> the left is trying to force everyone to vaccinate

If you believe that the left is pretty much every public health organisation in every country in the world, then yes.

Otherwise, your statement is false.

If Trump had won, and he had encouraged vaccination, would you be blaming the right?

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#950

Post by busymom0 » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 12:51 PM UTC

favorited wrote: post #678

busymom0 wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you are bringing up extreme examples. Other vaccines: > It is not known how long people who received IPV will be immune to poliovirus, but they are most likely protected for many years after a complete series of IPV. >Measles vaccines became available in 1963. If you got the standard two doses of the measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccine after 1967, you should be protected against the measles for life. >Sever…

> based on Israel, the vaccine is also losing efficacy after 3-6 months so they are giving a 3rd shot now A study[0] released last week shows that the Pfizer vaccine's effectiveness is still in the high 80s/low 90s after 6 months, and still 97% effective at preventing severe symptoms and hospitalizations. When compared to the annual flu vaccine, where the VE typically falls in the 30s and 40s, this vaccine is remarka…

Interesting. That seems to go against what Israel is reporting (one of the most vaccinated population if I remember right). And they are also using Pfizer & Moderna.

> Recent data released by the Health Ministry shows that those who were first to receive their two doses of the Pfizer COVID vaccine are more likely now to be infected, as the vaccine appears to lose protection potency over time. Data released by the Health Ministry last week suggested that people vaccinated in January have just 16% protection against infection now, while in those vaccinated in April, the effectiveness was at 75%.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israels-severe-covid-cases-cou...

> July 11, 2021: Israel offers third shot of Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine to adults at risk

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-offers-pfiz...

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/israel-offers-thir...

Israel is also reporting that Pfizer is only 39% effective against Delta:

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/23/delta-variant-pfizer-covid-v...

Looks like contradictory reporting.

Your last point about "When compared to the annual flu vaccine, where the VE typically falls in the 30s and 40s, this vaccine is remarkably effective, even after 6 months." proves my point. We don't mandate flu shots. And they are seasonal and very few people take them. This is exactly what I am saying - mandated vaccines like polio, chickenpox, measles etc last a lifetime or at least a few decades. That's not the case with these COVID vaccines, nor flu shots.