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NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

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Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#631

Post by mostertoaster »

Surviving is not the same thing as living just as noise is not the same thing as music.

People have lost their minds over covid and act in ways that they would have said were insane probably five years ago.

A bunch of younger people at very little risk of getting horribly sick, are demanding that everyone get vaccinated wear masks and want life to be miserable even though it is older people who are saying I’d rather just live my life and if I die I die.

I might get one dose of the vaccine, just so I can not be part of either side of this crazy debate.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#632

Post by swader999 »

AndrewBissell wrote: post #20
alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

> Unless, of course, you think that the vaccine is more dangerous than coronavirus. And then I don't really know what to say. There are vast demographics for which this is actually the case. Children under 18, for example. If you think these passports will only ever be used to check for Covid vaccination status, or that they'll be rolled back once Covid is no longer killing appreciable numbers of people, you're as gu…

Right, you might trust Biden or Cuomo to use all this social credit type data from a passport flashed to go anywhere but would you trust the next Trump? There is no reason to give the state this much power. No reason at all.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#633

Post by _ph_ »

trhway wrote: post #469
rubicon33 wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We should be reacting rationally to rates of hospitalization and deaths -- and right now, those are barely changed in NYC, No. No. No. No. No. Why is this so hard for people to understand? A virus doesn't just enter your body, and quietly go away. In MANY cases, it can have a lasting effect on your underlying health and wellness. This isn't a point of question, it's a known FACT that is all too often left out of th…

>I am vaccinated. I have friends who are vaccinated, and have still gotten COVID. vaccinated people get covid and spread it like unvaccinated[1]. Then what is the point of vaccination mandate? I really don't understand. Add to that that since May CDC stopped counting breakthrough cases which don't result in hospitalizations. [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/30/cdc-study-shows-74percent-of... "About three-fourths of p…

To my knowledge (which can be wrong), vaccinated people do have a much less chance to get infected, and if infected on average have a much less viral load (thats whey they don't get as sick). As a consequence, they are less contributing to spreading the virus than unvaccinated people. And as they get less often seriously sick, they also reduce the load onto the health sytem.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#635

Post by swader999 »

briane80 wrote: post #226
alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

Ivermectin has shown great promise not only treating symptons of covid (5000% reduction in viral load in one paper) but also as a prophylactic. The small studies released recently suggest up to 83% effectiveness as a prophylactic. Of course larger RCT will need done, but fat chance of that with the economic incentive for big pharma and their politcal cronies and the weird political push to get EVERYONE vaccinated. Ge…

It saved my ass. My regular gp's advice was just to live with long covid for the next 12 months or so until it went away. He couldn't prescribe it so I found the horse paste and got better.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#636

Post by chrisco255 »

rcpt wrote: post #387
chrisco255 wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have proof of any vaccine I have ever received. I didn't need to submit any kind of vaccination proof to go to college. Yes, I got my MMR and Tetanus shots in Kindergarten, but no one has cared since. And even then you can get exceptions. Medical fascism is not normal or acceptable in everyday life. We dealt with far worse diseases including smallpox, polio and many others without this authoritarianism.

How about let's not repeat smallpox and polio. We need to stop this current virus as fast as possible so it doesn't become any worse.

Let's not repeat fascism. It killed tens of millions of people. Millions more died for liberty, don't take it in vain.

We've already returned to pre-2020 levels of excess deaths in the U.S. [1] We have been there for months. Unless Covid mutates into something completely different, it's likely that 2020 was the worst year we'll ever see for it, because it was novel and no one had immunity at the beginning of 2020.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#637

Post by chrisco255 »

ashtonkem wrote: post #352
chrisco255 wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have proof of any vaccine I have ever received. I didn't need to submit any kind of vaccination proof to go to college. Yes, I got my MMR and Tetanus shots in Kindergarten, but no one has cared since. And even then you can get exceptions. Medical fascism is not normal or acceptable in everyday life. We dealt with far worse diseases including smallpox, polio and many others without this authoritarianism.

Which college did you go to?

University of Florida

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#638

Post by dan-robertson »

alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

I think I basically worry that the policy is not very effective. It doesn’t really allay anyone’s fears about the safety of the jab (I’ve seen people claim that the FDA giving it full approval rather than emergency approval would help but I don’t really believe them.)

But then France recently announced a similar policy and saw a few protests and a lot of people getting the vaccine. They like to protest more in France than America but I think Americans (even in NY) are perhaps more vaccine-hesitant.

I think I would like to see:

- more effort to make vaccines more accessible (wider range of times of day; working with community groups to have pop up vaccination events that include non-vaccine things so people aren’t scared off; maybe trying to let people know where they can get vaccinated and that it’s free; requiring employers to give people paid time off work to get vaccinated; etc)

- other incentives for vaccination (I see examples like being entered into a lottery or getting free donuts, but I mostly prefer just giving people cash to get vaccinated. Say $100 or maybe even $1000)

Another thing would maybe making it easier for businesses to only admit people who are vaccinated or have some suitable exemption but I think the latter is hard for privacy reasons and I think the former is just inviting businesses to decrease their custom which they are not normally wont to do.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#639

Post by swader999 »

bart_spoon wrote: post #306
tomp wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

4) You oppose tyranny. People should be free to make their own choices. By going out unvaccinated, I'm not putting anyone in danger, except those who choose to be endangered (not isolating / sheltering at home, unmasked, unvaccinated). 5) You oppose discrimination. I'm immune but not vaccinated. Where's my immunity certificate?

People are still free to make their own choices. The government isn’t holding you down and jabbing your in the arm. What’s happening here is that you are not being allowed to engage in particular aspects of society based on your choices, the same way you are prohibited from smoking in certain areas, from entering a bar if you are under 18, or driving your car on the wrong side of the road. Human societies are a trade…

The fact that your movements will be stored centrally and a profile developed has far more reaching implications and concerns that bad actors (future elected officials and their minions) will use this power to the detriment of society.

I agree that limits to freedoms are necessary but this is too extreme.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#640

Post by Overton-Window »

clukic wrote: post #197

Vaccine requirements have been in place for decades. For pre-K in NYC kids need shots for PCV and Hib. For kindergarten they need more shots: Hep B, Polio, Chickenpox, and Measles, Mumps and Rubella. Going to middle school? Then you'll need more shots, the TDAP and meningococcal conjugate. These are all vaccine requirements. Is it an invasion or privacy to demand children's records? Is it the nanny state? We could go…

Blatant false equivalence. All of those are FDA approved.
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