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NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

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Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#401

Post by ashtonkem »

MattGaiser wrote: post #397
ashtonkem wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I think a lot of people here without kids have absolutely no idea that you need to prove immunization in order to attend school. What’s funnier still to me is men (it always seems to be men) outraged that they might need to prove vaccination in order to send their kids back to school, publicly admitting that they’ve been fobbing that work off on their spouse.

Is it required or can you just sign a waiver and get out of it for religious/personal/health without a doctor reasons? Or is the documentation required easily forgeable?

Depends on the state. My college’s policies were set by state law. A doctor has to sign a record for a religious exemption, which probably reduced the number of people taking it significantly.

Faking it never crossed my mind, because duh.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#402

Post by mrtksn »

srcreigh wrote: post #372
mrtksn wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's the harm in letting unvaccinated people spread covid amongst themselves? Vaccinated people aren't at risk. Plenty of risks. 1) You are giving a chance for spreading a vaccine resistant strain. Every time a vaccinated person is exposed to the virus, most likely the immune system would take care of it however there’s a risk that it would contain a vaccine resistant mutation and will spread among vaccinated, cr…

Re 1) and 2), is there evidence that there are less covid mutations amongst vaccinated populations? I'm no epidemiologist, but maybe covid would achieve vaccine resistance better in a vaccinated population right? Regarding 3), Bill Gates wrote that ~70% immunity is all that's needed to eliminate covid. I'm curious for better info regarding that number too. It would imply that as many as 30% of people can remain unvac…

It’s not about more or less mutations but about how evolution works. Indeed, vaccinated people are creating a selection pressure, therefore vaccine resistant strain would most likely come from vaccinated people being exposed to a virus that has the right mutation to evade the vaccinated immune system.

The herd immunity percentage would depend on the characteristics of the strain. It can be higher or lower, the idea is that you need to have enough immune people so that the spread flames out. I read that for the delta variant the calculations show higher numbers because it’s more capable of spreading than the original one.

Ideally, we will reach that point before a strain undermines our vaccination efforts however that is not guaranteed. We can take measures to increase our chances.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#403

Post by bobbylarrybobby »

_red wrote: post #365
JoshTko wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A high vaccination rate is most beneficial for poor and minority populations as they are by far the most exposed to the virus via work.

High vaccination rates will only exert selection pressure on the virus causing new mutation strains to become dominant. How is this not understood? Vaccines should only be used for targeted at-risk population. Everyone else should strive for natural immunity.

How does a vaccine exert any higher a selective pressure than the natural immunity that comes from getting covid?

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#404

Post by Clubber »

swayvil wrote: post #390
alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

We settled this point at Nuremburg. Involuntary experimental medical procedures are what the bad guys do.

Don't tell the CIA that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unethical_human_experimentatio...

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#405

Post by rubicon33 »

timr wrote: post #129
alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

I am pro-vaccine (and fully vaccinated), but I don't support this policy at all. I don't believe this will have much of a net effect on vaccination rate, I believe it will disproportionately negatively impact poor and minority populations in NYC who already have a bad/mistrustful relationship with health care and government, and it is obviously a huge new governmental intrusion into our daily lives. It might well lea…

> We should be reacting rationally to rates of hospitalization and deaths -- and right now, those are barely changed in NYC,

No. No. No. No. No.

Why is this so hard for people to understand? A virus doesn't just enter your body, and quietly go away. In MANY cases, it can have a lasting effect on your underlying health and wellness. This isn't a point of question, it's a known FACT that is all too often left out of the discussion entirely.

I am vaccinated. I have friends who are vaccinated, and have still gotten COVID. One of them still doesn't have their sense of taste and smell back, after nearly 3 weeks post symptoms. They describe being brain fog, and tiredness that they didn't have before, as well as an "itch" in their lungs when exercising that they didn't have before.

There's absolutely no reason to say things like "hysterical fixation on cases". Bringing cases down means LESS LIVES LOST and less HEALTH lost.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#406

Post by trident5000 »

standardUser wrote: post #289
trident5000 wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you know, let people decide if they want to take a risk. What do I care if someone doesnt want to get vaccinated and put themselves at risk? Thats on them. Just like they can go bungee jump or drive a race car.

Primarily because of the threat to our healthcare system, but also because of those with high risk of breakthrough infection and those who cannot be vaccinated. I find it a little hard to believe that anyone who has lived through this pandemic does not understand this.

Put unvaccinated people who catch covid last in line at hospitals. Problem solved.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#407

Post by blub »

jrockway wrote: post #150
tracedddd wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We shouldn’t applaud the normalization of health status checks outside a border crossing. The world has a nasty trend of using crises to erode privacy and we collectively never recover - what was sold as temporary becomes permanent, endlessly extended and expanded. I’m not an antivaxer. The vaccine works and I believe it’s really safe. I’m vaccinated. Nearly anyone who is capable to go to a bar can easily go get vacc…

What sort of things will health checks be used for in the future? Once Covid is gone, I don't think people will really care about your health information beyond entities that already care (health insurance providers denying coverage because of preexisting conditions, etc.) Certainly, The Mets won't care if you got your flu shot this year, and your local bar probably won't care that you didn't get your annual physical…

If this were an existential threat to society maybe that would justify mandatory vaccination, but it’s not even close to that. Even the most badly battered countries have not only managed to survive, but found a way to cope with the pandemic.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#408

Post by TomVDB »

h_anna_h wrote: post #199
TomVDB wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By going out unvaccinated, I'm not putting anyone in danger Yes, you are. * while a vaccinated person can spread the virus as well, current understanding is that it does so less than for an unvaccinated person. * vaccinated people can get sick, even if there's a much lower chance * vaccinated people can still have children who are not vaccinated None of this is absolute. It's a matter of percentages, chances and wh…

> * vaccinated people can still have children who are not vaccinated They should just vaccinate them then. I don't see why it is fine for the children to be unvaccinated but not for tomp.

I see that you’re suffering from the common affliction of having a strong opinion about something you have no clue about: vaccines have not been approved for those younger than 12.

Now that your knowledge level has increased, will you please stop endangering others and take the vaccine?

Thanks!

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#409

Post by makomk »

compsciphd wrote: post #102
giantg2 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For #2, if you have a medical condition that prevents you from receiving the vaccine it would require either falsified vaccine cards to show you as complying with the mandate, or disclosure of a/the medical condition that prevents you from getting it. Effectively, this small minority is finding themselves in a position that pits their medical privacy of their underlying medical conditions against the requirement to p…

In Israel antibody levels are a way to get the "green passport". My parents get vaccinated in the US, and since israel doesn't recognize foreign vaccinations, when they visited Israel they had to get an antibody test to be let out quarantine early. As it should them having antibodies, they were let out. As Israel doesn't have data that says they were vaccinated, they were let out as "recovered" (even though as far as…

The US seems to have a weird ideological opposition to the idea that recovered people have immunity from Covid, even though all the science indicates that they do. There's even weird articles in the press from time to time boggling at the fact that people don't care about getting vaccinated despite having caught Covid before, as though that somehow gave them more reason to think they needed a vaccine rather than less.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#410

Post by ysavir »

SirensOfTitan wrote: post #89
ysavir wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If the vaccine is as effective as it seems, then this decision feels positively nanny state to me. It takes away an individual's agency to inform themselves of the risks on both sides and make an informed decision If this were mandating that every resident of NYC must be vaccinated, I would agree. But it's not doing that. It's only saying that anyone wanting to dine (or possibly shop, too) indoors, that is, in space…

From Alec Karakatsanis's excellent Usual Cruelty on plea bargains: > “the Constitution requires that every guilty plea waiving the constitutional right to trial by a jury of one’s peers be knowing, intelligent, and voluntary.69 But no one who works in the criminal system thinks that contemporary plea bargaining produces voluntary agreements. The vast majority of plea bargains are accepted by people who are told that…

> I also do respect their rights to judge the information available for themselves without severely restricting their ability to live their lives.

Can you expand on how being required to dine outside instead of dining inside is a severe restriction on someone's ability to live their life?

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