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NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

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Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#721

Post by [deleted] »

ok123456 wrote: post #688
wyager wrote: post #672

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US Supreme Court is not the ultimate moral authority. You’re responding to a comment addressing the abstract long-term consequences of a policy with a specific legal determination saying the policy didn’t happen to violate US law.

At some point, society has to reach a decision so it can function. You can't just throw your hands up in the air waiting for some higher power with a clearer moral standing to show up and do something universally morally unambiguous. We use the court system as a way of resolving conflicts where there are competing interests and arguments to be made. The Supreme Court had a similar situation happen 116 years ago, and…

[deleted]

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#722

Post by pensatoio »

jrockway wrote: post #150
tracedddd wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We shouldn’t applaud the normalization of health status checks outside a border crossing. The world has a nasty trend of using crises to erode privacy and we collectively never recover - what was sold as temporary becomes permanent, endlessly extended and expanded. I’m not an antivaxer. The vaccine works and I believe it’s really safe. I’m vaccinated. Nearly anyone who is capable to go to a bar can easily go get vacc…

What sort of things will health checks be used for in the future? Once Covid is gone, I don't think people will really care about your health information beyond entities that already care (health insurance providers denying coverage because of preexisting conditions, etc.) Certainly, The Mets won't care if you got your flu shot this year, and your local bar probably won't care that you didn't get your annual physical…

> Once Covid is gone,

Covid will _never_ be gone.

Ever.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#723

Post by mlang23 »

timr wrote: post #659
Barrin92 wrote: post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you are fully vaccinated, you are at essentially no risk of serious illness from SARS-CoV2. Terrible first order logic. The threat from the virus is not only immediate risk to the individual, it is also further transmissions increasing the risk of creating new breakthrough variants. Every infected person is a gamble that risks nullifying the effectiveness of vaccines, so the goal must be to bring down infections…

> we should have. Tolerating disease spread and threats to vulnerable populations when vaccines are available that are practically risk-free (or the risk being magnitudes smaller than the payoff) is ridiculous. Maybe this finally shakes people awake and puts public health and safety to the top of the agenda rather than people throwing tantrums like children about government incursion. You can certainly go down this p…

Thanks for having the courage to write this. I couldnt agree more. I find the risk assessment argument of the thread parent really twisted. Younger people effectively have no risk of dying from covid. Elderly have. And now, the left is trying to force everyone to vaccinate, no matter how good or bad their immune system might be. This world has become a place I actually really dont want to live in. If this trend really wins and people accept a world of forced vaccination and masks and restrictions of public areas, I prefer to contract covid and die.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#724

Post by pensatoio »

tracedddd wrote: post #70
tantalor wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope

Pointing out a slippery slope doesn’t mean it isn’t worth considering the consequences. My position is indeed speculative, however it’s not without evidence. We very rarely regain rights or freedoms when they are taken so I think it’s valid to be concerned about the same thing happening here.

I don't know, at some point, you have to look at every example of "slippery slope" over the past decades and realize that they've all been true.

Emphasis on the last year and half, too.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#725

Post by huntermeyer »

tehwebguy wrote: post #384
mrfusion wrote: post #230

A bit off topic but you know what’s really jarring for me? For the past ten years I’ve agreed with the majority on hacker news on almost every issue. Software patents, voting rights, who knows what else. Everyone seemed to just find the right answer and it made sense. Then all of a sudden I’m in tiny minority because I believe people should be able to choose what they put in their own bodies. It really feels like a t…

> I believe people should be able to choose what they put in their own bodies You still can, with limited exceptions: * Kids need to be vaccinated against ~9 ailments before they attend school (seems mandatory but homeschool is an option in every state) * Adults need to be vaccinated against one before they patronize indoor restaurants, entertainment venues and gyms (completely optional activities and only in the den…

The vaccines kids have to get have a very high (near certainty) probability of preventing them from contracting the particular illness.

The covid vaccines do not. People are still getting covid after being vaccinated. This is happening a lot.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#726

Post by throwaway212135 »

alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

This is not a policy. This is a mandate. A policy requires discussion and almost always ends with some vote. There is nothing democratic about this mandate.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#727

Post by trident5000 »

anigbrowl wrote: post #719
trident5000 wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you know, let people decide if they want to take a risk. What do I care if someone doesnt want to get vaccinated and put themselves at risk? Thats on them. Just like they can go bungee jump or drive a race car.

Can I drive a race car down your street?

I dont get your analogy. You can get the vaccine to protect yourself.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#728

Post by notJim »

monocasa wrote: post #712
notJim wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think immune compromised people can generally get the vaccine, but there are questions about how effective it is. Some have proposed they may need a 3rd dose.

Practically there's next to no data on mRNA vaccines given to immuno compromised indviduals, and almost certainly isn't the case that they're fine to get the non mRNA vaccines. So they end up not taking it for valid safety concerns.

> So they end up not taking it for valid safety concerns.

Are you referring to the mRNA vaccine? If so, source for this? I see lots of articles that question whether the vaccines are as effective for immuno compromised people, but none that say they shouldn't take the mRNA vaccine. In fact, I see many studies testing the efficacy of mRNA vaccines for immuno-compromised people, which would seem to indicate we think it's safe. I only know one immuno-compromised person, and she got the vaccine.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#730

Post by gthtjtkt »

RaketenStadt wrote: post #210
gr1zzlybe4r wrote: post #137

This is the point where we have to stop making trade offs of choice and liberty in the name of "security". Give the public open data about the effectiveness of the vaccine and then let people make their own decisions about what to do. The moralization and judgement about the vaccine has become ludicrous. If you're scared to do things around others even if you're vaccinated, then that's fine. We cannot accept a societ…

> Give the public open data about the effectiveness of the vaccine and done: https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#datatracker-home > then let people make their own decisions about what to do As we see, they go to crowded places, unvaccinated, and spread the virus. I think that's irresponsible. Is that "ludicrous moralization and judgement?"

> and done: https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#datatracker-home

Vaccine effectiveness is changing every day. In Israel they're seeing 16% efficacy 6 months after the 2nd Pfizer dose.

Also, benefits are only one half of the cost:benefit analysis. Where is the public data on side effects? It doesn't exist because all we have is completely unverified VAERS claims.

You can't make an informed decision when you only know half the equation.

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