Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…
We shouldn’t applaud the normalization of health status checks outside a border crossing. The world has a nasty trend of using crises to erode privacy and we collectively never recover - what was sold as temporary becomes permanent, endlessly extended and expanded. I’m not an antivaxer. The vaccine works and I believe it’s really safe. I’m vaccinated. Nearly anyone who is capable to go to a bar can easily go get vacc…
NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings
61–70 of 1001 posts
Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings
#62Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…
My problem is that the whole thing is based on old data and a false premise that life is safe when vaccinated people are only around vaccinated people. We know this is slightly more true than among the unvaccinated, but only by about 40%. This is real data. Fears of privacy implications: Tracking data/metadata, How data is recorded, How long are records kept. What other data is linked to vaccination checks? Fears of…
Vaccination in NY/NYC is easily proven. Picture of your vaccine card is sufficent and there's also the excelsior pass which is a QR code. Super easy to get from a city/state website after entering a few details (think name, when your last vaccine was, which vaccine etc).
This can be downloaded as an image, into apple wallet etc. For those who chose not to, they can stick to carrying around their vaccine card (just as anyone carries around an ID, cash, credit card, cell phone, mask, etc) or just keep a picture of it on their phone
The vaccine is free for everyone, so there's very little discrimination there. In NY there are plenty of sites to go to where you can walk in and be out today in under an hour. Likely half an hour.
As to the privacy, yes, that's a fair concern but its literally no different than having to get a vaccine to travel to certain countries. Data exposed is minimal and not that much more than what would be gathered showing your ID when buying alcohol which contains your name, dob, address, etc. Far more personal information then if I'm vaxxed.
Those who are ineligible for the vaccine (due to age mostly now) I don't think are subject to this. Most people with medical conditions are still able to get vaxxed. If not, they especially should not be going out. Those who are vaxxed and also immunocompromised have far less protection as well compared to their peers who aren't immunocompromised.
Anyone over the minimum age qualifies for the vaccine.
If people at this point are willfully choosing not to get vaccinated tough luck. Its absurd and they shouldn't be allowed to prevent those of us who care about each other and the community from enjoying life again.
Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings
#63To preface: I got the vaccine months ago (as soon as I had access), I'm a big believer in vaccines. With that being said, this policy doesn't sit well with me. None of the currently available vaccines in the US are FDA approved. Of course, a lot of people have received those vaccines, but I also don't necessarily fault individuals for feeling hesitant (the nuance here is that I think people ought to get the vaccine).…
>If the vaccine is as effective as it seems, then this decision feels positively nanny state to me. It takes away an individual's agency to inform themselves of the risks on both sides and make an informed decision If this were mandating that every resident of NYC must be vaccinated, I would agree. But it's not doing that. It's only saying that anyone wanting to dine (or possibly shop, too) indoors, that is, in space…
It's putting a scarlet letter on these people and shaming them for making their own choice about their own bodies.
I think we've determined from other issues that "separate but equal" isn't actually equal. That absolutely applies here.
Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings
#64Glad I left LA last September. I can't believe NYC is going even more extreme than there, but they are. The good news, is my home purchase down here in Charleston is up 10% in only 3 months. This ridiculousness in CCP NYC will only help ensure my home price goes through the roof. So, yes, if you want to live in a place that respects your right to choose what you do with your body and your life, come on down south. Just don't bring your bad policies down here with you is all the locals ask :)
Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings
#65Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…
I don't have much problem with a mandate, but I think you are missing a reason someone might be against one. A vaccine will protect the vast majority of people from bad outcomes if they themselves get it. There is strengthening evidence that vaccinated people can still be very infectious and a big danger to the unvaccinated. Therefore if you believe that governments should be parsimonious in their regulation of people's activities, mandating a vaccine that doesn't particularly protect anyone but the person who gets it might be an example of government overreach. We let people smoke after all. If you believe that the vaccine will protect others (and I hope it does, despite some recent concerning studies) then it is more defensible to mandate it.
Basically, I would hope mandates like this are done on the science instead of on the hope that if we're all very good citizens and get our shots we will somehow be rewarded with protection from the big bad virus and an end to the pandemic.
Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
Meta: What do you think about the timestamps on the children comments here? So many/much responses in <1min from the parent comment? GPT-3 manipulation?
That's because it was not submitted when you think it was. The submission came here via the second-chance pool. That means that it was submitted recently, in this case yesterday. It might have gotten a few points and comments at best but did not really catch on. It was deemed interesting enough and moved to the second-chance pool to be automatically put on the frontpage a few hours later again. The process rewrites t…
I see that, however I was referring to children comments of the initial comment in this thread, and not the submission itself.
Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
Requiring people to consume a medical product, especially one that has not been subject to the full FDA approval process, just to live their normal lives is morally wrong. They are making people into test subjects for a multinational corporation. It doesn't matter if we already do this to an extent with other vaccines; nothing in the past has ever come close to this. It doesn't matter if you think the vaccine is more…
How many compulsory vaccines were necessary for you to attend school? For me, it was three or four at least, and until some genuinely inimical people decided vaccines were a good way to get famous at the expense of the body politic, nobody cared .
Those vaccines have had years of use behind them. The coronavirus mRNA vaccines are a completely new technology and haven't even been given anything past emergency approval. This is an apples and oranges comparison.
Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings
#68Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…
> You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? As someone who is vaccinated, I'm frankly tired of wearing masks, and I don't feel I should have to wear one to protect someone else who is refusing a vaccine.
Totally agreed. And the silly thing is that it's not the unvaccinated people demanding mask mandates, it's only (some of) the vaccinated people, for whom it would produce at best a tiny decrease in risk.
Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
Requiring people to consume a medical product, especially one that has not been subject to the full FDA approval process, just to live their normal lives is morally wrong. They are making people into test subjects for a multinational corporation. It doesn't matter if we already do this to an extent with other vaccines; nothing in the past has ever come close to this. It doesn't matter if you think the vaccine is more…
How many compulsory vaccines were necessary for you to attend school? For me, it was three or four at least, and until some genuinely inimical people decided vaccines were a good way to get famous at the expense of the body politic, nobody cared .
This is a day-old comment on a thread which never made it to front page HN, and now 5 snarky replies appear in less than 30 minutes. Do you guys all work in the same room or something?
Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
We shouldn’t applaud the normalization of health status checks outside a border crossing. The world has a nasty trend of using crises to erode privacy and we collectively never recover - what was sold as temporary becomes permanent, endlessly extended and expanded. I’m not an antivaxer. The vaccine works and I believe it’s really safe. I’m vaccinated. Nearly anyone who is capable to go to a bar can easily go get vacc…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope
Pointing out a slippery slope doesn’t mean it isn’t worth considering the consequences.
My position is indeed speculative, however it’s not without evidence. We very rarely regain rights or freedoms when they are taken so I think it’s valid to be concerned about the same thing happening here.