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Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

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Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#101

Post by version_five »

standardUser wrote: post #96
version_five wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't buy it, even if there was 90% vaccination, which I think we can get to, people want to see obedience. This is as much about calling out heretics as it is about health, especially at companies like google. If broad vaccination was the goal like for other apolitical diseases, there are lots of measures google could support to get us there that don't involve invasive tracking of health information. Let's try to…

"This is as much about calling out heretics as it is about health" No, you're wrong, this is about saving lives. Around 300 people died today from a disease that we can stop. 300 more will die tomorrow. Are there perhaps others sub-agendas that some people are pushing under the cover of the pandemic? Yes, obviously, just like with literally every other catastrophe. But the primary agenda is stopping a preventable dis…

What a boring response.

You don't just get to say "this as about saving lives" and not have any real argument.

Encouraging vaccination, and getting it to levels consistent with other vaccines, does not automatically mean accepting new powers for employers or anyone else to enquire about people's medical status.

Google's move is consistent with wanting to give the appearance of being a progressive company that shares the values of many people here, that think individual privacy and freedom take a back seat to showing that we are taking the disease seriously. This is the same theater we see with airlines and security at other venues. There are real ways of addressing it, and then there are token gestures that are mostly about appeasing stakeholders. This is effectively populism. It's comforting to provide rituals and easy answers, but it is discriminatory and divisive, and not consistent with liberal democratic values, even if you agree with it.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#102

Post by rantwasp »

mrfusion wrote: post #80
rantwasp wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i’m with you there. what really concerns me is that people that vaccinated themselves and people who don’t want the vaccine seem to live in completely different worlds. we are a post truth society. logic and reason have been dismissed and sent to the basement. I laughed hard when I saw Idiocracy first - now I no longer find it funny. I wonder why.

You’re pretty certain you know the real truth. Must be nice.

okay. i’ll bite. what’s the “real” truth?

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#103

Post by tene »

ds206 wrote: post #78
Spooky23 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vaccination doesn’t mean you cannot be infected, and cannot spread it once infected. It lowers the chances of infection and presentation of symptoms. So when your unvaccinated coworker exercises his selfish right to be stupid, you’re putting others at risk. The difference here is that your exposing your coworkers children and others who cannot be vaccinated to infection. We socially tolerate people like this who choo…

What's the point of a right if it can't be exercised?

For example, the right to freedom of association, and choosing not to employ people who are making reckless choices that impact the safety of their coworkers?

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#104

Post by rantwasp »

6f8986c3 wrote: post #92
DrBenCarson wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fuck the pushback. We cannot let the worst of mankind condemn us all to death because we don’t want to upset the worst of mankind.

Hey there, fashy boi. Nazi propagandists created documentaries showing Jewish, Romani, and other "undesirable" communities as "disease-ridden". It is easier to convince normal people to betray "undesirables" when "normal people" believe they are protecting both their own health, as well as the health of their communities.

huh. tell me more?? not sure where you’re driving here

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#105

Post by amanaplanacanal »

ErikVandeWater wrote: post #53
danans wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Though very few religions oppose vaccines: https://slate.com/technology/2015/02/religious-exemption-for...

It's really shaky to say "religions" don't oppose vaccines because religious interpretation (and personal interactions with their god(s)) is up to the individual. But it's all irrelevant in this case because Google is almost entirely an at-will employer. They can change the terms of the agreement at any time - take it or leave it.

I suspect they might run into trouble if they started discriminating against specific religions.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#106

Post by rantwasp »

busterarm wrote: post #65
paxys wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doubtful. Some people might make a little bit of noise, but how many are willing to give up a Google salary to fight for the anti-vax cause?

I have nearly died twice in my life as a physical reaction to a vaccination and am being advised by my physician not to take these yet. I am now in the position of choosing between a Google-sized salary and whatever risks are associated with these vaccines. This isn't a decision being made lightly. I'm not anti-vax, I'm just pro-me. That 20 per 100K could be you.

nah. you’ll be fine and get an exemption. Taking the vaccine usually goes like this: risk if you take it google/facebook is gonna understand this

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#107

Post by throwaway199998 »

paxys wrote: post #77
nixpulvis wrote: post #35

It's honestly fascinating to me that this is going to be the way we meet Privacy vs Security face to face more broadly. Intrapersonally, they might go hand in hand, but in the group setting, they seem almost at direct odds. Security (or safety) requires some social contracts to be fulfilled. When these social contracts aren't enough we start to see polices and law take up the slack. Our existing privacy laws and regu…

Is this really pushing the envelope though? Routine drug testing by employers, for example, has been considered totally acceptable by society for decades now. I'd consider a one-time proof of vaccination against a deadly pandemic to be far less intrusive than that.

You're subhuman and mentally ill, this is far from deadly if you got your stupid vaccine. Even if you didn't, frankly.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#108

Post by nixpulvis »

version_five wrote: post #97
paxys wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this really pushing the envelope though? Routine drug testing by employers, for example, has been considered totally acceptable by society for decades now. I'd consider a one-time proof of vaccination against a deadly pandemic to be far less intrusive than that.

Is routine drug testing universally considered acceptable? If I'm going to be a pilot, maybe. For a developer job, I would never consider one that asked for a drug test (I don't use drugs just to be clear, my objection is to a company having any say in what people do on their own time). People complain about having to do a coding test during the interview process, but somehow it's ok to verify that you don't smoke po…

I've been drug tested for corporate programming jobs before. I wouldn't say it's the norm in our industry though and this may be even less common now, IDK.

But I do feel like there's a distinction between a urine test and a vaccine, since it's impossible to have a negative reaction to a piss test.

As a fully vaccinated individual, I still dislike the idea of having to disclose this fact. Not for any logical reason I can personally attribute, but just because I'm used to not wanting to discuss my personal medical history in a professional setting. Perhaps this is actually worth changing, given how fucked up our medical system is here (USA). Just because something is new doesn't make it bad. What worries me though is backlash for the tiny fraction of population that actually can't take the vaccine for whatever reason.

This line of reasoning falls apart pretty quickly after this point, since if you look for it, you can come up with whatever reasons you want for fearing the vaccine and therefor not taking it. At the end of the day you just need to trust that some things work as designed and that you are probably stronger than you think you are.

Sorry I ended up going off on a tangent here.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#109

Post by dtwest »

shrubble wrote: post #88
dtwest wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being stuck working at Google or Facebook is a bit different than being stuck in a concentration camp from the perspective of consent don't you think? I'm not belittling the discussion that our society must have about what can or can't be mandated by an employer. However, I doubt the above quote was created in the context of high paying tech jobs, they were focused on the forced experimentation that occurred in WW2.

The movement/positions of the German medical establishment started in the mid-1920s... some 8 years before Hitler even had any political power.

That may be true, but your quote is from 1947.
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