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Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

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Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#81

Post by dtwest »

shrubble wrote: post #56

From the first point of the Nuremberg Code: 'The voluntary consent of the human subject is absolutely essential. This means that the person involved should have legal capacity to give consent; should be so situated as to be able to exercise free power of choice, without the intervention of any element of force, fraud, deceit, duress, overreaching, or other ulterior form of constraint or coercion; and should have suff…

Being stuck working at Google or Facebook is a bit different than being stuck in a concentration camp from the perspective of consent don't you think?

I'm not belittling the discussion that our society must have about what can or can't be mandated by an employer. However, I doubt the above quote was created in the context of high paying tech jobs, they were focused on the forced experimentation that occurred in WW2.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#82

Post by itsdrewmiller »

busterarm wrote: post #69
paxys wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read the article you will see that they are making an exception for medical reasons.

Not my company. At my company, I have to be back in an office and vaccinated. At my company it's 100% a political signaling move. Also New York State stopped recognizing religious & medical exemptions for vaccinations for school attendance over a decade ago. Companies based out of here are basing their decisions around this policy.

I find this hard to believe - you should name and shame them if it's true. Your claim about NY seems wrong - they still recognize medical exemptions:

https://www.health.ny.gov/prevention/immunization/schools/sc...

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#83

Post by shrubble »

SlowBall wrote: post #71
shrubble wrote: post #56

From the first point of the Nuremberg Code: 'The voluntary consent of the human subject is absolutely essential. This means that the person involved should have legal capacity to give consent; should be so situated as to be able to exercise free power of choice, without the intervention of any element of force, fraud, deceit, duress, overreaching, or other ulterior form of constraint or coercion; and should have suff…

And your point is? No one is strapping down Google employees to a chair to inject them with a vaccine. They are free not to take it if they chose to do so, and accept the consequences of their actions like any adult would.

I'd classify 'get an experimental vaccine with known possibility of side effects or we fire you from your job' as 'element of force', 'duress', and 'coercion'.

Am I to understand that you would not?

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#84

Post by 6f8986c3 »

shrubble wrote: post #56

From the first point of the Nuremberg Code: 'The voluntary consent of the human subject is absolutely essential. This means that the person involved should have legal capacity to give consent; should be so situated as to be able to exercise free power of choice, without the intervention of any element of force, fraud, deceit, duress, overreaching, or other ulterior form of constraint or coercion; and should have suff…

There are several reasons for this being in the Nuremberg Code.

- Nazis conducted horrific medical experiments on Jewish prisoners (who were mostly German citizens as well!). In fact, pretty much everything we know about hypothermia came from the Nazis freezing and attempting to revive prisoners.

- Nazis often used promises of medical treatment to ensure compliance. The famous "showers" were one such example. Prisoners were then sent into a room -- complete with showerheads, soap, and even puddles! -- to be gassed.

- Nazi propagandists created documentaries showing Jewish, Romani, and other "undesirable" communities as "disease-ridden". It is easier to convince normal people to betray "undesirables" when "normal people" believe they are protecting both their own health, as well as the health of their communities.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#85

Post by ds206 »

version_five wrote: post #72
standardUser wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vaccination rate for vericella (Chickenpox) is over 90%, so our society has herd immunity and cases are rare. Same with measles, mumps, diphtheria and polio. I don't know the vaccination for meningitis, but cases are rare and mostly in children not old enough to be vaccinated. If an officemate wanted to be a free rider on one of those they could, and it would be very unlikely any harm would come from it. If we ha…

I don't buy it, even if there was 90% vaccination, which I think we can get to, people want to see obedience. This is as much about calling out heretics as it is about health, especially at companies like google. If broad vaccination was the goal like for other apolitical diseases, there are lots of measures google could support to get us there that don't involve invasive tracking of health information. Let's try to…

"This is as much about calling out heretics as it is about health"

Yes exactly. You can see it happening in these comments right now :)

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#86

Post by neogodless »

pokstad wrote: post #58

Makes no rational sense. The unvaccinated choose to be unvaccinated. You can walk into any Walgreens and get vaccinated for free. The vaccines have over 99% efficacy. Over 99% of new infections are unvaccinated people. Vast majority of vaccinated people getting infected with delta are having mild illness. If I had to bet, these sorts of policies actually disincentivize people to get vaccinated. Let everyone suffer so…

> these sorts of policies actually disincentivize people to get vaccinated

Can you explain your logic?

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#87

Post by chitowneats »

paxys wrote: post #77
nixpulvis wrote: post #35

It's honestly fascinating to me that this is going to be the way we meet Privacy vs Security face to face more broadly. Intrapersonally, they might go hand in hand, but in the group setting, they seem almost at direct odds. Security (or safety) requires some social contracts to be fulfilled. When these social contracts aren't enough we start to see polices and law take up the slack. Our existing privacy laws and regu…

Is this really pushing the envelope though? Routine drug testing by employers, for example, has been considered totally acceptable by society for decades now. I'd consider a one-time proof of vaccination against a deadly pandemic to be far less intrusive than that.

Before this year I think most would have agreed that requiring an injection of a novel pharmaceutical is more intrusive than a non-medically invasive test of urine or hair follicle.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#88

Post by shrubble »

dtwest wrote: post #81
shrubble wrote: post #56

From the first point of the Nuremberg Code: 'The voluntary consent of the human subject is absolutely essential. This means that the person involved should have legal capacity to give consent; should be so situated as to be able to exercise free power of choice, without the intervention of any element of force, fraud, deceit, duress, overreaching, or other ulterior form of constraint or coercion; and should have suff…

Being stuck working at Google or Facebook is a bit different than being stuck in a concentration camp from the perspective of consent don't you think? I'm not belittling the discussion that our society must have about what can or can't be mandated by an employer. However, I doubt the above quote was created in the context of high paying tech jobs, they were focused on the forced experimentation that occurred in WW2.

The movement/positions of the German medical establishment started in the mid-1920s... some 8 years before Hitler even had any political power.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#89

Post by dwhit »

version_five wrote: post #72
standardUser wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vaccination rate for vericella (Chickenpox) is over 90%, so our society has herd immunity and cases are rare. Same with measles, mumps, diphtheria and polio. I don't know the vaccination for meningitis, but cases are rare and mostly in children not old enough to be vaccinated. If an officemate wanted to be a free rider on one of those they could, and it would be very unlikely any harm would come from it. If we ha…

I don't buy it, even if there was 90% vaccination, which I think we can get to, people want to see obedience. This is as much about calling out heretics as it is about health, especially at companies like google. If broad vaccination was the goal like for other apolitical diseases, there are lots of measures google could support to get us there that don't involve invasive tracking of health information. Let's try to…

That’s a lot of words to say you’re scared of needles.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#90

Post by oldcigarette »

I work at google and am vaxxed but this pisses me off. I decided that the vaccine was worth the risk and for the best overall but if someone makes a different calculus I can understand and respect that.

IMHO they gone way outside the reasonable scope of an employer - this is a cultural decision at the society level - why the fuck does my employer give a shit about this. Unless the employees are only commuting back and forth to work this does fuck all. It's feel good virtue signalling and I can't stomach any more counter productive SJW bullshit. The risk from COVID is not even that high for vaccinated individuals. What low risk bullshit are they going to make rules about next? Don't expect me to smile when you ask me to trade freedom for a bit of false security.

Want to change something? Then change societies perspective on the vaccine on your own fucking time.

Personally this ranks with their worst decisions and they made some fucking awful decisions over the years. I probably will act as if I don't have the vaccine and let them fire me for it when push comes to shove.

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